Weekend Games and Last ROY Comparison

by JohnBowen

For this, we will just be comparing the rookies in their individual seasons, not how their careers have panned out.

Tigers @ Orioles – Justin Verlander (2006) over Gregg Olson (1989) [Always go with the starter...]

Twins @ Indians – Sandy Alomar (1990) over Marty Cordova (1995) [Eh and Meh]

Rays @ Yankees – Evan Longoria (2008) over Derek Jeter (1996) [Sorry El Capitan]

Nationals @ Phillies – Andre Dawson (1977) over Ryan Howard (2005) [Above twice as many games]

Angels @ Blue Jays – Tim Salmon (1993) over Eric Hinske (2002) [Best player to never make an all-star game]

Padres @ Reds – Benito Santiago (1987) over Scott Williamson (1999) [This is the point in the list where I decided it wasn't fun]

Giants @ Marlins – Buster Posey (2010) over Chris Coughlan (2009) [Neither's playing now...]

Cubs @ Braves – Geovanny Soto (2008) over Rafael Furcal (2000) [Though, how did Volquez not win that?]

Royals @ White Sox – Angel Berroa (2003) over Ozzie Guillen (1985) [Yup, that Ozzie]

Pirates @ Brewers – Ryan Braun (2007) over Jason Bay (2004) [Not exactly a gold glove team there]

Rockies @ Cardinals – Albert Pujols (2001) over Jason Jennings (2002) [Didn't waste any brain cells on that one]

Mets @ Diamondbacks – Dwight Gooden (1984), by default. [Should've been Cy Young]

Rangers @ Athletics – Andrew Bailey (2009) over Neftali Feliz (2010) [Ah, the reliever-default rule]

Red Sox @ Mariners – Ichiro Suzuki (2001) over Dustin Pedroia (2007) [Both MVP's]

Astros @ Dodgers – Jeff Bagwell (1991) over Todd Hollandsworth (1996) [After Bags, Dodgers won 5 ROY in a row)

Ugh, sorry everyone. I’ll think of something better next week.

185 Responses to “Weekend Games and Last ROY Comparison”

  1. Raul Says:

    Your logic for Dawson completely negates your reason for choosing Longoria over Jeter.

  2. Raul Says:

    Nevermind, I forgot you weren’t talking careers.

    Jumped the gun a bit.

  3. Raul Says:

    Although it should be noted that Pedroia didn’t win his MVP in his rookie year like Ichiro did.

  4. Cameron Says:

    Neftali had the rookie save record… Bailey had a 1.89 ERA… Yeah, Bailey.

  5. Raul Says:

    You better come up with some xFIP.

    John doesn’t play that traditional statistic crap.

  6. Cameron Says:

    1.89 is 1.89, Raul. I don’t need sabr to back up a sub-2 ERA.

  7. Raul Says:

    LOL

    Anything not to speak about Angel Berroa.

    Wait. Angel Berroa played for the Mets and Yankees in 2009? I don’t remember that at all.

  8. Cameron Says:

    Minors deals I think. I do remember some bench spots for Berroa in the Yankees and Dodgers.

  9. John Says:

    @3, I know. Year after though, which is kinda close. I was just saying that they both won MVP’s.

  10. Chuck Says:

    “Although it should be noted that Pedroia didn’t win his MVP in his rookie year like Ichiro did”

    At least Pedroia deserved his.

  11. John Says:

    I would’ve gone with Mauer that year, but I hear ya. Giambi was so clearly the choice in 01 it isn’t even funny.

  12. Bob Says:

    In draft news, the Dodgers, despite being bankrupt, still signed Chris Reed, their #1 draft pick. And there are rumors circulating that the Jays will not sign Tyler Beede and he will instead opt for Vanderbilt. Less than 85 hours for the 2011 draft to be complete. T.G.I.F.!!!

  13. Cameron Says:

    Toronto still gets compensation next season if they don’t sign Beede. Not a huge loss.

  14. Chuck Says:

    “Toronto still gets compensation next season if they don’t sign Beede. Not a huge loss.”

    Not necessarily.

    The compensation issue is one thing that will probably change in the CBA, and will be retroactive to this year.

  15. Cameron Says:

    Oh, it’s retroactive to this year? From what I’ve heard the draft changes won’t take place until 2012, but compensation from 2011 will still carry over since that draft was carried under the old CBA.

  16. Chuck Says:

    “but compensation from 2011 will still carry over since that draft was carried under the old CBA.”

    No.

  17. Raul Says:

    Happy 37th birthday, Matt Clement.

    I couldn’t understand why Clement wasn’t more successful. I remember watching him and thinking “this guy has really good stuff”.

    Word is he is now a high school basketball coach.

  18. Bob Says:

    If I recall, he was never the same after he was drilled by a line drive. Cannot fault him.

  19. Raul Says:

    http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110811&content_id=23098044&vkey=news_kc&c_id=kc

    Any Royals fans anxious to see top Draft pick Bubba Starling signed needn’t hold their breath.

    Royals general manager Dayton Moore expects the negotiations with the fifth overall pick in the 2011 First-Year Player Draft to go right up to the deadline.

    “There’s nothing — there won’t be anything until the final hour of August 15,” Moore said in a phone interview Thursday.

    Anyone looking for indications as to how the Starling negotiations might play out can look at two current Royals, rookies Eric Hosmer and Mike Moustakas.

    Moustakas was the Royals’ first-round pick in 2007, drafted second overall. Hosmer was taken third overall by Kansas City in 2008. Both are Boras clients. And both agreed to sign with the Royals about 10 minutes before the deadline.

    Hosmer signed for a $6 million bonus. Moustakas got a $4 million bonus. Starling is expected to be offered between $7 million to $10 million, which would break the record held by Hosmer for largest signing bonus given to a Royals Draft pick.

  20. Cameron Says:

    And I remember both these guys were high school draft picks. Boras doesn’t like his high schoolers to sign without college re-entry, but there’s precedent here. One thing that’s holding up is the fact he’s also highly prized by the Cornhuskers football program and they’re using NFL projections to say he could make more money as a QB in whatever draft he’d declare for over signing for baseball now.

    However, with the new NFL CBA and rookie signing capped, that argument doesn’t hold up as strong as Boras thinks it should. One thing I do like about Starling, almost as much as his talent, is the fact he’s a declared two-sport athlete. We could break Strasburg’s record draft signing bonus and we’d feel less of an impact. Why? Two-sport athletes take their bonuses in five year installments, making them nicer signs from a budgetary standpoint.

    Personally? Throw whatever they want at him, he’s worth the fuckin’ money.

  21. Raul Says:

    During Dan Uggla’s current 31-game hitting streak, he is hitting .355/.409/.685 with 12 home runs with 29 RBI and 25 runs scored.

    He’s raised his batting average from .178 to .224 in that time.
    The Braves are 19-12 during the streak.

  22. Cameron Says:

    So basically he’s playing up to his contract 4 months too late? …Eh, he’s still got 4 years on his extension, too early to really call it a bust, but man did he get off on the wrong foot.

  23. Chuck Says:

    Starling doesn’t have the leverage with football you think.

    Nebraska recruited, I think, three QB’s plus they have another three or four on the roster.

    That means red-shirt city for a couple of them.

    Starling is a baseball guy, football is just something to do in the off-season.

    He’ll sign.

  24. Cameron Says:

    I personally don’t think he has that much leverage, but if Boras can find anything resembling leverage, he’ll use it to gouge the price to high holy shit and that stalls negotiations.

    I think he’ll sign, but I can’t ignore the roadblocks.

  25. Cameron Says:

    And the one thing you need to remember about Starling is that even thoug he CAN throw a football 60 yards from his knees, he’s a rush-first QB. Huge red flag. Last good scrambler I saw have any success was Michael Vick.

  26. Chuck Says:

    One of Raul’s favorite things to do is rip hitting streaks.

    Dan Uggla is proof why.

  27. Raul Says:

    Scrambling QBs are nonsense.

    The key to being a successful quarterback has always been a player’s ability to move within the pocket.

    Dan Marino was an expert and sliding within the pocket to buy himself extra time for receivers to break away. In that respect, he’s one of the most successful mobile quarterbacks of all time.

    Even players like Steve Young and Donovan McNabb, generally regarded as great mobile quarterbacks did not achieve true success until they learned to throw within the pocket.

    But enough.
    This is baseball.

  28. Chuck Says:

    Cameron, there’s no such thing as a 6′5″ “rush-first” QB.

    At least not after high school.

    Rushing against a 5′4″ linebacker is a lot different than a 6′4″ corner.

  29. Raul Says:

    Hitting streaks are nice. You should try to get a hit every game, but it’s completely overblown.

    Dustin Pedroia hit .411/.465/.723 in the month of July.

    THAT is impressive.

  30. Raul Says:

    Happy trails, Austin Kearns.

    After starting off the year with a DUI, you’ve been DFA’d by the Cleveland Indians.

  31. John Says:

    For me, hitting streaks are just fun to keep track of.

    Not everything has to be about correlations with scoring.

    It’s a fun game, so have fun with it!

  32. John Says:

    @30, that move was, I presume, to make room for your favorite punching bag.

  33. Raul Says:

    I suppose I was wrong.

    Multiple times over the winter and early in the year, I said that if the Yankees lost Alex Rodriguez for a period of time, it would sink their chances of making the playoffs. But the Yankees have managed to stay in the race, and they’re just 1 game back of the Sox for 1st place.

    The pitching has kept them in games a lot more often that I expected.

  34. Cameron Says:

    You also didn’t think that Freddy Garcia and Bartolo Colon would still be on the team this late in the season. All sorts of pleasant surprises for you, huh?

  35. Raul Says:

    Ivan Nova has been a different pitcher away from Yankee Stadium this season.

    At home:

    W/L: 6-2
    ERA: 4.62
    Innings: 64.1
    Hits: 70
    OPS Against: .803

    Away:

    W/L: 5-2
    ERA: 2.81
    Innings: 48
    Hits: 45
    OPS Against: .593

  36. John Says:

    I’m just as shocked as you, Raul.

    On paper, there was no reason to believe this would be a quality rotation.

    Yet overall, this is the best pitching in the AL.

  37. Cameron Says:

    You know, this list has me thinking, who had the greatest rookie season of all time? There’s two answers for me here, sort of a 1 and a 1A.

    The first one isn’t really numbers based, it’s Jackie Robinson. The fact he made it through the season playing exceptionally well as a black man in the early 50s without getting killed was a miracle. The off-the-field shit he had to go through has been recognized and overshown to death, but I still have to commend the man.

    From a purely on-the-field standpoint though… Ted Williams.

    Runs Scored: 131
    Hits: 185
    Doubles: 44
    Triples: 11
    Home Runs: 31
    RBI: 145 (League Leader)
    Batting Average: .327
    On-Base Percentage: .436
    Slugging Percentage: .609
    OPS – 1.045
    OPS+ – 160

    …Most guys don’t have a season that good and he did it in year one.

  38. Raul Says:

    Shin Soo Choo isn’t a bad player. But he isn’t a star either.
    I would expect him to play better next year.

    On the other hand, I’ve been saying the same thing about Nick Markakis for years now and he keeps proving me wrong with his crappy power numbers.

  39. Raul Says:

    Sometimes I wonder how the media today would handle a player like Ted Williams.

  40. Cameron Says:

    Why does everyone say Markakis’ power is disappointing them? The guy never was, never will be, and never was supposed to be, a slugger. He had 2 20 HR seasons and those are the outliers. Guy cranks 40 doubles a year with a .300 batting average, good glove, and a good arm. He’s solid, but he’ll never be a star.

  41. Cameron Says:

    If he treated modern media like he did the press in his day? Like Barry Bonds. “Guy’s a hell of a player, but the world’s most gigantic asshole.”

  42. John Says:

    @38, here’s my thing:

    Double his HR total (from 09 or 10), but give him Adam Dunn’s speed, and Manny Ramirez’s OF ability…and now, he is considered a star.

    If a guy is 7/10 or 8/10 at every aspect of his game, is he really less valuable than a guy who’s 10/10 at power, 9/10 at hitting for average, and 2/10 at everything else?

  43. Cameron Says:

    Actually, Nick Markakis and Billy Butler are really similar hitters. Butler’s got a bit more power, as he’s more likely to hit 20 HRs a season, but they’re both .300 hitters with 40+ doubles a year.

    But Markakis can field and field well, so there’s a huge bonus there.

  44. Cameron Says:

    “If a guy is 7/10 or 8/10 at every aspect of his game, is he really less valuable than a guy who’s 10/10 at power, 9/10 at hitting for average, and 2/10 at everything else?”

    Power and contact are the only tools that matter. Remember, Michael Bourn’s the best defensive outfielder and best baserunner in the league, but he’s a singles hitter so he sucks.

  45. Raul Says:

    There’s also the fact that Nick Markakis plays his home games in a little league field.

    His slugging is down for the 3rd straight year.

  46. John Says:

    Of course, egg is on my face for this year.

    If only he had signed with Oakland, it could have been a perfect storm of brilliant guesses by me.

  47. Cameron Says:

    The funny thing about Markakis’ slugging is that he’s hitting homers at a faster pace than last year, but his doubles are cut in half pretty much.

    …I wanna blame it on morale. When you dread stepping on the field because you know your team will lose, your game tanks.

  48. Raul Says:

    With the talent that Baltimore has, they should have a much better record.

    I can’t even blame upper management. They’ve done a good job in terms of getting talent in their system. The coaching is terrible.

    Yeah Oakland sucks.
    I really think moving would help reinvigorate that franchise.

  49. Cameron Says:

    Which is odd, because that same coaching made them the best team in the AL during their tenure last season. What the fuck happened?

    And Oakland has talent on one side of the ball. They need hitting. They just need to wait a few year. Carter, Choice, Taylor, Green, the minors has great hitters in spades.

  50. Cameron Says:

    I know it’s been brought up before, but there’s more buzz about the Astros possibly being moved to the AL West to even out the divisions at five teams each. New owner Jim Crane has said to Bud Selig he wants the Astros to stay in the NL Central, but I don’t know how much weight that really carries.

    Thoughts? I really wouldn’t mind if they moved or stayed.

  51. Raul Says:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/12/mike-harlow-soldier-surprise-wife-baseball_n_925600.html

    that was nice.

  52. Raul Says:

    Sure.

    The Mariners could use a team to beat up on.

  53. Cameron Says:

    Ouch… Ah, who am I kidding? The Astros went from bad to laughingstock this season. They lost Pence, they lost Bourn which means the best hitter in their lineup is Carlos Lee.

    Though there’s hope. Brett Wallace, Chris Johnson, and Jason Castro are a solid young core and Jordan Lyles and Bud Norris are rotation fixtures, but they need work.

  54. Raul Says:

    LOL

    Getting moved to the AL West is like being relegated in European soccer.

  55. Cameron Says:

    You know, with all the talk of boxing on this site, I feel like that’s not the only great fighting going on. All the good fighters seemed to have migrated to mixed martial arts, mostly the UFC. Some of the knockouts I’ve seen there are pretty brutal.

    Take for example, Wanderlei Silva vs. Quinton Jackson as UFC 92. For about the first three minutes, it was pretty slow. Then Silva tired to throw a punch at Jackson’s head, bad idea. Jackson catches the dude with a left hook that floors him, then grabs Silva by the throat while still on the floor and punches him about four or five times square in the face (and UFC gloves have only 4 grams of weight, you’re feeling that punch a lot more than a boxing glove) before the ref stopped him. Silva wasn’t moving and basically had no idea where the fuck he was.

    Also saw a great fight between Cheick Kongo and Pat Barry. Fight lasted thirty seconds, but neither guy threw up a block. It was 30 seconds of guys trading shots to the head before the ref called it for Kongo after landing a lucky uppercut. It was an awesome trainwreck.

  56. Raul Says:

    I think UFC is boring and silly.

    If boxing and martial arts are poetry in motion, UFC and the like would be its retarded cousin.

  57. Cameron Says:

    It’s a mixed bag. Some guys rely too much on grappling and the slow parts get pretty ridiculous. however, the guys at the top of their game can deliver some pretty spectacular beatdowns.

    Track down Sonnen vs. Silva. Sonnen spent 22 minutes absolutely hammering Silva into the ground before being taken down by a lucky armbar. It was less a fight and more of a massacre.

  58. Raul Says:

    I just think it’s boring.

    Either get in the ring and box…..or go all out no-holds-barred style like The Kumite in Bloodsport.

    De La Hoya or Van Damme.

    Those are your choices.

  59. Cameron Says:

    It used to be more striking focused, but there’s been a large influx of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu fighters into the sport and they focus on striking from the guard and that’s where you get a lot of the ground fighting. It does lend itself to some ridculously overkill submissions like the gogoplata, but it’s also lending itself to “lay and pray” guys.

    Jsut liek any sport, you can make it more enjoyable by focusing on the guys you like, and I like big strikers like Fedor Emilanenko. Watching an old fight of his against Tsuyoshi Kohsaka. Fedor basically went in and decided to hate-fuck the guy’s skull with his fists. One round fight, but they had to stop the bout 4 times to mop off the blood pouring from Kohsaka’s head and then they stopped the fight after that round to prevent any further damage.

    Fedor ended that bout with most of his body covered in Kohsaka’s blood. It was brutal.

  60. Danny O Says:

    Boxing has been pretty boring these days…

  61. John Says:

    @progressive field for Indians-Twins game!

    Hoping Thome gets two tonight!

  62. Cameron Says:

    If he does, track down and murder whoever gets bomb #600 if it isn’t you already.

  63. John Says:

    HOF day today, conveniently honoring Blyleven and Alomar.

    Also, an Elvis imposter sang the national anthem.

  64. Cameron Says:

    An Elvis impersonator singing the national anthem… Classy.

    I’ll stick to the Royals letting local bands play for the fans before games.

  65. John Says:

    Just got a free indians cap from a chick passing them out. Said my cap (brewers ball-in-glove) was all messed up.

    Thome up third in the inning.

  66. Cameron Says:

    She probably didn’t even realize it was a Brewers cap.

  67. Lefty33 Says:

    I still can’t believe the Phillies signed Cust to a minor league deal today.

    Maybe he’ll get a mysterious turf toe injury like Podsednik and never have a chance at the Phillies roster in October.

    The problem is that I think he was signed to be the 2011 version of Matt Stairs.

    (Going back to hitting head on keyboard.)

  68. Raul Says:

    Everywhere you read, the idea is that Banuelos could come up this season to go to the Yankees bullpen.

    Why a team would bring up a young player whose biggest issue appears to be walks and trouble locating his FASTBALL to a Major League bullpen just defies logic to me.

  69. Hartvig Says:

    Cameron @ 37

    “From a purely on-the-field standpoint though… Ted Williams.”

    Almost as amazing is that he probably could have done that one year earlier than he did. As a 20 year old playing 148 games with Minneapolis he hit .366 with 43 home runs and 370 total bases. I can’t imagine many current MLB teams would let a player spend an entire year in the minors when he had so clearly overmatched the competition.

  70. Hartvig Says:

    I know this is a little off topic but I was looking at the 1937 San Diego Padres that an 18 year old Ted Williams played for. He led the team with 23 home runs, not a huge number under any circumstances but it was still almost half again as many as the runner up (16) who also played in 30 more games than Williams. The entire rest of the team (excluding pitchers) only out homered Williams by 5. Based on the W-L records of their pitchers they appear to have played a 200 game schedule finishing 111 and 89.

    But what’s truly amazing is that they played a 200 game schedule with 7 pitchers. Four other pitchers managed to total 40 innings between them, leaving 1688 innings for the first 7 guys to handle.

    And now we need 13 man staffs for a 162 game schedule.

    Go figure.

  71. Raul Says:

    I’d like to see a pitcher say his goal for 2012 is to complete 20 games.

  72. John Says:

    @68, why is there a consensus that the Yankees must, no matter what, fuck with him like they did Joba?

    The Yankees got extremely fortunate that Garcia and Colon have worked out so well, and they have to be psyched about how solid Nova has been.

    They probably aren’t gonna luck out like this is 2012 & beyond. Their bullpen in 2011 is fine, actually outstanding. I say they keep MB starting in the minors, iron out his kinks if they can, and bank on tripling his potential ceiling if there’s even a remotely good chance that it could work out and he could be a fixture in the rotation.

  73. Raul Says:

    I agree John

  74. Cameron Says:

    RIP Ernie Johnson, former player and Braves color commentator on radio and TV from 1962-1999.

  75. Cameron Says:

    And Carlos Zambrano has said he’s retiring. Cleaned out his locker and called it quits last night. I’m with what Mike Quade said. If he wants to just walk out on the other 24 guys that are trying to win games out there, then good riddance.

    My longshot opinion? He retires this year, nullifying his contract, and then he files for reinstatement as a way around Chicago not being able to trade him.

  76. Mike Felber Says:

    Robinson was a rookie in ‘47, not the early 50’s. Ted Williams rookie year was awesome,though Dick Allen’s was arguably even better, considering that it was ‘64 & the home park was Philly’s His line:

    1964 22 PHI NL 162 708 632 125 201 38 13 29 91 3 4 67 138 .318 .382 .557 .939 162 352 8 0 6 3 13 *5 MVP-7,RoY-1

    Ah well, the categories did not copy, but I’ll bet most of you understand what they refer to. His WAR was enormous, best of career, doing this playing every game in this offensive context was almost Epic even for the ROY.

    I wonder how far this shot went? Though the extreme pull will limit distance. Laga played 9 years, not much each year though, was not very good, even as a power hitter: But then he did this:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/12/mike-laga-foul-ball-busch-stadium_n_925176.html?ncid=webmail4

    Who recalls him?

  77. Cameron Says:

    Hm, there’s an interesting thing brewing here. A team of the best rookies of all-time. It’ll be fun to play them at their actual positions, making Williams a RF and Allen a 3B.

    It says it caught on the roof, so it had to be about the 500 foot range with some mammoth air. Kinda sucks it was foul though.

  78. Bob Says:

    Hideki Matsui and Johnny Damon both cleared waivers and can be traded to any team. Have not heard anything on Wandy Rodriguez

  79. Bob Says:

    John,any thoughts on Obama being a share-holder of your beloved Packers?

  80. John Says:

    Here’s a question…where do you put Pujols’01? He played all over – mostly 3b, but we have Allen there.

    Gooden has to be the pitcher. Jackie Robinson was a 1b his rookie year, so I gotta believe he loses to McGwire ‘87.

    SS – I’m thinking Nomar’97, since ARod ‘96 wasn’t actually a rookie year.

    Mays’51 in CF? Glove & bat combo, sure.

    Bob – I believe the terms of the stock only allow Packer stock to be transfered between family. And I can never except the President as a shareholder – not because of his politics (that would be rather unprofessional on my part) but rather his status as a fucking bears fan.

  81. Cameron Says:

    DH?

  82. Cameron Says:

    The Bears… How the fuck did they win 11 games?

  83. Raul Says:

    John @ Post 80 just came up with his next article.

    Chicago’s problem is they can’t score.
    Every year — even when they are good — they somehow always end up being one of those teams that wins 16-10.

  84. John Says:

    @82 a rock solid defense.

    @81 How many rookie DH’s have there even been? It’s a position you go to when you’re old and immobile. What about Bob Hamelin in 94, was he a dh? He certainly looked like one.

  85. Raul Says:

    And I wake up to the following text message from a friend:

    “Carlos Zambrano giving up 5 HRs in one outing and getting ejected for throwing at batters, then threatening to retire is the most Carlos Zambranoish thing ever.”

  86. John Says:

    +1 @ Raul’s friend.

    Joe Morgan’s 1965 with the Astros is probably the 2b.

    Looking at his career…how did Joe Morgan formulate his opinions on baseball? Did he think he was an unbelievably shitty ballplayer?

  87. Raul Says:

    From FJM:

    Tuesday, September 23, 2008

    It’s Cool
    It’s cool everybody. Everything’s cool.

    Jason Bartlett was voted MVP of the Tampa Bay Rays by the Tampa Bay chapter of the BBWAA.

    I know, I know, he’s supposed to be a very good defender. But let me say some things about Jason Bartlett: He’s missed like 30 games this year; he’s hit three fewer home runs this year than Carlos Zambrano; he’s 8th on his own team in VORP; and he plays on the same team as Carlos Pena, Evan Longoria, and B.J. Upton.

    I just want to announce here on this blog, that if any baseball analyst of any kind tells me that “you really have to watch Jason Bartlett play every day to understand how much he means to this team,” and that same analyst is found drowned at the bottom of my hot tub the next morning, and I am found standing upon that corpse, in the hot tub, wearing my trunks and a hoodie and just relaxing and smoking a joint, and maybe ordering a pizza or something, and instructing the delivery guy to come in through the gate because I’m in the back standing on a body in my hot tub — if all of that happens, I would really appreciate if someone could meet me outside, by my hot tub, and float me a few dollars for the pizza, because I will be in no mood to get off of that corpse, or get out of the hot tub for that matter, and plus I will probably have forgotten to bring some money out to the hot tub with me.

    Thanks guys. You’re the best.

    ____________

    And this one:

    Sunday, September 14, 2008

    Darin Erstad Swings Wildly, Makes Last Out in Big Z’s No-Hitter
    Are you thinking what I’m thinking?

    Yes. You are.

    He should have tried to punt.

  88. John Says:

    Hahahaha, I miss fjm.

    KT’s twitter blows. Too political.

  89. John Says:

    I went ahead and sorted the Rays batters from 08 by WAR. I was secretely hoping Bartlett would be first because of his position and defense and stuff. It would be really ironic, no?

    He was basically tied with James Shields….AS A BATTER.

  90. John Says:

    Ohh -catcher has to be Piazza’93.

    I’m gonna call Pujols’01 a LF even if he played more at 3b.

    So:

    C – Piazza
    1b – McGwire
    2b – Morgan
    3b – Allen
    SS – Garciaparra, possibly Tolowitzki ‘07
    LF – Pujols
    CF – Mays
    RF – Williams

    SP – Gooden
    RP – Papelbon’06

    Who am I missing?

  91. Raul Says:

    manager? lol

  92. John Says:

    Mark Fidrych might actually be the pitcher.

    Frank Robinson and Paul Waner had big time rookie years.

  93. John Says:

    I know Bob Brenly won a ring in his first year managing.

    There are probably better candidates lol.

  94. Cameron Says:

    Fidrych was a good pitcher as a rookie, but I think I’d stick with Doc K. Though if you had a full rotation, you’d get him, Bird, Fernando… Who else?

    And Pujols I said is DH, though he’s really more a utility guy.

  95. Hartvig Says:

    Home Run Baker actually gives Allen a little competition at third- I think Allen was better, but not overwhelming so.

    Ripken belongs in the discussion at shortstop, as does Arky Vaughn and maybe Glenn Wright and Ron Hansen do too.

    I’d take Pudge Fisk over Piazza if were taking defense into account.

    I think Freddie Lynn is a better choice than Mays.

    And can I get a little love for Joe Charboneau?

  96. Hartvig Says:

    Whitey Ford, Mel Stottlemyre, Tiny Bonham and Marius Russo are all Yankee pitchers who all had amazing first years but they all only pitched about 100 innings.

    Don Newcombe wasn’t too far off of Gooden on the mound and he helped himself a lot more with the bat

  97. John Says:

    Fred Lynn! MVP as a rookie! Duh…

    Then you’ve got Ichiro…but he’s not replacing Williams.

  98. Chuck Says:

    “@progressive field for Indians-Twins game!”

    Cool.

    I was at the Met’s Dbacks game last night, and I bet I had better seats.

    Two sections down the RF line from the dugout, second row.

    Courtesy of Ron and Ike Davis.

  99. John Says:

    I believe it. We were out in the RF OF in case Thome hit 600. Going back sunday.

  100. Cameron Says:

    Fisk was good with the glove, but for Piazza’s bat, I’ll eat the defense. Ichiro and proably Lynn would be on the bench for the team as well.

    And courtesy of Ike Davis? How the fuck did you pull that one off?

  101. Cameron Says:

    I’ve been down in the front row seats in KC twice. Once in my first game because it was a night game and ballpark security just didn’t give a fuck, was behind the home dugout.

    Second time was setting up the skyshow, no game going on. But I’ve seen more of a major league ballpark than most guys I’ve ever will. Most of it was for work though, so it was service hallways and shit.

    …I still take pride in the fact I shat in the Royals’ dugout toilet, though.

  102. Chuck Says:

    “And courtesy of Ike Davis? How the fuck did you pull that one off?”

    He gave a bunch of tickets to Ron, who donated them to the Alumni association.

    Got a distribution list email about 2pm asking if anyone was interested, I was at work so my wife texted me and said I had an important message that required an “immediate response”.

    I called, there were a couple of tickets left, so I grabbed one.

  103. Cameron Says:

    Class act by Ron there.

  104. Raul Says:

    Nice game to see @ Chuck.

    The Diamondbacks won, and you got a chance to see Ian Kennedy.

  105. brautigan Says:

    Tony Oliva, 1964. He hit .323/.359/.557 with 84 extra base hits.

    The league average that year was .247/.315/.382.

  106. Bob Says:

    Raul, going to usurp your role in doing the birthday list today.
    Noted baseball fan Fidel Castro is 85. Interesting fact about him. He also played chess against Bobby Fisher.

  107. Raul Says:

    I love El Presidente.

    Thanks, Bob!

  108. Cameron Says:

    El Presidente? I thought that was Dennis Martinez.

  109. Raul Says:

    Well, this is the other El Presidente.

    But any time someone can mention Dennis Martinez, it’s a good time.

    On second thought, Castro might be El Comandante, not El Presidente.

    Fuck it.

  110. Raul Says:

    Didn’t realize this, Dennis Martinez is the last man to pitch to Kirby Puckett.

    His wild pitch broke Puckett’s jaw.

  111. Cameron Says:

    Kirby Puckett, there’s a hell of a what-if story for ya. Retired after his age 34 season, and the guy was still a hell of a hitter. Would’ve had 3,000 hits easy, I’d love to see what he could’ve done on a full career.

  112. Chuck Says:

    Bryce Harper hit a walkoff last night, first AA homer.

    Estimated at 480 feet.

    http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/multimedia/vpp.jsp?content_id=17960703

  113. Hartvig Says:

    brautigan- Oliva was one of the first names that popped into my head when I started my post. Unfortunately by the time I finished it, it had popped out again. Good catch.

    I keep wanting to find someone besides McGwire at first. Frank Thomas only played a partial season his first year but that year and the next are pretty much identical on a pro-rated basis and were better than McGwire… sort of.

    I don’t know if Vida Pinson was technically a rookie as a 20 year old (he had 110 PA’s the year before and I don’t know what the rules were then but he didn’t get any ROY votes) but his numbers are right there with Mays, as are Bobby Allison’s and Earle Comb’s. But I’m still going with Freddie as my guy in center.

  114. Chuck Says:

    Walt Dropo, 1948.

    Led the AL in RBI (I know, a meaningless stat) and Total Bases.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dropowa01.shtml

  115. Chuck Says:

    “The Diamondbacks won, and you got a chance to see Ian Kennedy.”

    Paul Goldschmidt’s ass, actually.

    Right in my sight line to the mound.

  116. Cameron Says:

    I don’t think anyone but McGwire could be at first, and even if you did, 49 homers muscles him a DH spot. That kind of power has to be started.

  117. Hartvig Says:

    Kirby Puckett may be the player that I’ve enjoyed watching the most in my life. Fidrych is the only one that comes close and I only got to see him 3 (actually 2 & 1/2) times on TV plus I heard one of his games on the radio.

    I hope you young’uns appreciate how good you’ve got it with cable nowadays.

    And Cameron, if you have any pictures of your KC dugout toilet experience- you can keep ‘em to yourself…

  118. Cameron Says:

    Heh, what’d Barack Obama open his speech about greeting the Packers for their victor’s meeting to the White House with?

    “I’m just gonna come out and say it, this hurts a little bit. This is a hard thing for a Bears fan to do. It doesn’t hurt as much as the NFC Championship Game hurt, but it still hurts.”

    Nice.

  119. Cameron Says:

    I was thinking of watching a Marx Brothers movie since it’s just one of those slow days you can curl up with a good movie and I could use a laugh.

    But I can’t decide between A Night At The Opera or Duck Soup….

  120. Chuck Says:

    I’m getting ready to watch the Yanks and Rays.

    My wife caught a flight to San Fran this morning for a quick business trip, home tomorrow night, so it’s some Daddy daughter bonding time.

    She’s online playing some games, I’m gonna watch some PGA Championship and baseball.

    Then, tonite, after she goes to sleep, I’m going to curl up with “Deep Throat” in High Def and a couple of Boston Lagers.

  121. Bob Says:

    Just a couple? Lightweight.

  122. Bob Says:

    Zambrano, you just made life fun again in the Windy City.

  123. Cameron Says:

    Deep Throat. Nice.

    You know they made a Deep Throat 2? It… Uh… It’s bad. REALLY bad. It’s a porn-comedy that got trimmed down to an R rating for theatrical release. For some reason, there’s also Russian spies involved in the plot. It’s… It’s almost worth watching for how insane it is.

  124. Cameron Says:

    You know, I think I know what movie I’m popping in tonight. I don’t care how many times I’ve watched it, and believe me, if DVDs could wear out from overplay, this one would’ve exploded by now…

    It’s Blues Brothers time.

  125. Mike Felber Says:

    Deep Throat & Blues Bros…Ah the Classics. Put the together & you’ve got Deep Blues. Which was an excellent documentary featuring the late TY Times Music critic Robert Palmer-the less fair partner of the Eurythmics Uber-talented Annie Lennox was amongst a couple of folks that took a pilgrimage down from Memphis through Mississippi. I did my own long planned ~ month long trip down there shortly afterwards. It was ‘92.

  126. Cameron Says:

    The Cubs are gonna keep Jin Hendry in power for the forseeable future.

    …It’s gonna be a long wait for that next ring, north side. Get used to it.

  127. Chuck Says:

    Dbacks signed Lyle Overbay.

    Why? I have no idea.

    Yankees signed Scott Proctor.

    Why? I have no idea.

    Mariners called up Wily Mo Pena.

    Why?

    Big flies, baby.

    Phillies signed Jack Cust.

    I wonder if Lefty’s forehead stopped bleeding.

    To those people (mostly on Bleacher Report) who thought the Yanks should have traded for Carlos Zambrano.

    You’re all freakin’ crazier than he is.

  128. Cameron Says:

    And as far as I know, all four of those guys were signed for AAA depth and 40 man roster callups.

  129. Cameron Says:

    Huh, I was wrong. Overbay’s on an MLB deal.

  130. Cameron Says:

    And in a rare move, Carlos Zambrano has been placed on the disqualified list. I think this is the first I’ve seen this happen to a player. I know there’s grievance lists and restricted lists, but this is the first I’ve heard of the disqualified list.

    With this move, Zambrano is not allowed to travel with the Cubs for the next 30 days and he will not be paid by the Cubs during the 30-day disqualified assignment. This time will be used to discuss whether or not Zambrano will actually retire and what the plans for the pitcher are.

    The MLBPA is planning to file a grievance on Zambrano’s behalf.

  131. Cameron Says:

    Ah, not the first. Francisco Rodriguez was placed on the disqualified list last year following the fiasco with his girlfriend’s father.

  132. Lefty33 Says:

    “And as far as I know, all four of those guys were signed for AAA depth and 40 man roster callups.”

    Cust was signed to audition for the part of being the one guy off the bench that could hit a HR for the Phillies in a PH role from the left side as Gload should have been either DL’d or DFA’d in about May as he is playing with an untreated hip condition that barely allows him to hit the ball out of the infield.

    But at least, unlike Cust, he makes contact.

    (Goes back to hitting head on keyboard)

  133. Cameron Says:

    Cust was still signed on a minor league deal, Lefty.

  134. Lefty33 Says:

    “Cust was still signed on a minor league deal, Lefty.”

    But I think you’re smart enough to read between the lines.

    He’s not there for depth.

    He’s there to see if he can actually still make enough meaningful contact that the Phillies could cut or “DL” Gload and hopefully give themselves a power threat from the right side with Mayberry and from the left side with Cust.

    It’s an audition. He wasn’t signed to play three weeks of AAA baseball.

    The Marlins today also optioned Morrison to AAA and cut former Phillie Wes Helms.

  135. Cameron Says:

    He’s there for depth for a month and he’s gonna help ‘em out in the stretch in September. I doubt he survives the cuts going into October.

  136. Lefty33 Says:

    “I doubt he survives the cuts going into October.”

    As do I, but if he can make some contact the job of being the LH PH will be his as they have no other options at this moment.

  137. John Says:

    Were the Marlins trying to ensure another year before LoMo hits free agency, like the Brewers did a couple years back with JJ Hardy?

    Otherwise, this move is very confusing.

    And if so, what a dick move.

  138. Cameron Says:

    Knowing Miami, this is a move to beat Super Two status.

    I know they’er still Florida, but I’m trying to call them Miami now so I’m used to the name change next year.

  139. John Says:

    So I went to another Indians game today, bit it got rained out after 2.

    I ended up just watching the Orioles barely hang on against the Tigers, giving the Tigers a 2.5 game lead in the Central.

    The Indians have 45 games in their last 44 days because of rain delays.

  140. Cameron Says:

    I’ll take the rain delays over that fucking 5 months heat wave the midwest just went through.

  141. John Says:

    The Indians are the second-youngest team in baseball, to the Royals, and have done an incredible job staying in the race.

    I gotta believe this stretch is going to cause them to flame out.

  142. Cameron Says:

    If they crash and burn, I’ll bring the marshmallows to roast over the burning corpse of their season.

  143. Cameron Says:

    It seems there’s been more details around the demotion of LoMo. From what I can gather, he was demoted because… The Marlins are run by assholes.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/08/morrison-could-file-grievance-against-marlins.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MlbTradeRumors+%28MLB+Trade+Rumors%29

  144. Cameron Says:

    Oooh, KC’s working on an extension for Alex Gordon.

  145. Chuck Says:

    Getting bored with the Cardinals game, so I’m channel surfing.

    ESPNU has on “College Fishing, Bass Finals.”

    No shit.

    You can get a scholarship to college for putting a worm on a hook?

  146. Cameron Says:

    College bass fishing? Are you shitting me?

  147. Danny O Says:

    Catch a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he sits in a boat all day and drinks beer.

  148. Cameron Says:

    And apparently gets a college scholarship. What in the streaking blue fuck?

  149. Danny O Says:

    After they started ballroom dancing in the Olympics, nothing shocks me anymore.

  150. Cameron Says:

    Wait… What?

  151. Chuck Says:

    Angel Pagan hit a liner off Jason Marquis’ right shin, he stayed in the game for another 14 pitches before collapsing…because he had a broken right fibula.

  152. Chuck Says:

    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2011_08_14_nynmlb_arimlb_1&mode=recap_home&c_id=ari

  153. Raul Says:

    Jason Marquis is a hockey player.

  154. Cameron Says:

    14 pitches with a broken fibula? …Yeah, he’s a hardass.

  155. Lefty33 Says:

    Cust today went 0 for 3 with 2 popouts and hit into a DP.

    To get Cust on the roster the Phillies put Aaron Heilman on the DL with the ever popular “turf toe” injury.

  156. Danny O Says:

    All us Staten Islanders are hard asses lol.

  157. Bob Says:

    I am fucking pissed. I could have majored in angling. Although, if you are freshwater fishing, trout, salmon, walleye, pike and perch are all better than bass. Saltwater I have to go with flounder.

  158. Raul Says:

    I don’t recall ever hearing about “turf toe” being an injury in the past.

    Does anyone seriously remember Lawrence Taylor or Ozzie Smith going on the DL with turf toe?

  159. Bob Says:

    Google “Turf toe.

  160. Bob Says:

    The Marlins ownership really is bankrupt on every level.

  161. Chuck Says:

    Logan Morrison has options left, the Marlins can send him down at any time and don’t need a reason.

    He’s been called to the principal’s office more than once, and he blew off a mandatory team appearance the other day because the M’s cancelled his charity bowling tournament without telling him.

    So, Wes Helms told him to blow off the event, which he did.

    Helms did show up, and got released anyway, Morrison ended up getting grounded.

    Suck it up, be a man, and shut the fuck up already. You got sent to your room in part because you can’t keep your mouth shut, don’t make it any worse.

  162. Chuck Says:

    Turf toe is a hyperextending of the large joint in the big toe, where it connects to the foot.

    It’s a injury more common to football players who played a lot on artificial surfaces (hence, “turf” toe).

    It is not an injury associated with relief pitchers, so, Heilmann likely stubbed his toe on his sofa walking to the fridge for a beer.

  163. Cameron Says:

    Yeah, but the thing I don’t like about the demotion is how the Marlins handled it, citing his batting average as the only defense, despite the fact he’s in the top of the team on most everything. If you’re sending him down as a disciplinary measure, tell people it’s a disciplinary measure, there’s nothing wrong with that. Do what you wanna do, just don’t bullshit people into thinking it’s another reason. If a .249 batting average gets you sent down, most of the Marlins hitters are fucked.

  164. Chuck Says:

    Great article in SI about Trevor Bauer.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1189170/4/index.htm

  165. Chuck Says:

    It’s nobody’s business why he got sent down.

    It’s better to tell a little white lie than it is to air dirty laundry in public.

    C’mon, Cameron, you never called in sick to work with “a 24 hour flu”, when in reality you didn’t sleep all night because you were puking up jello shots?

  166. Cameron Says:

    Never been in the position where I could afford to miss work so far.

  167. John Says:

    Yeah, most people can’t actually afford to be professional fuckups for a living.

    “It’s nobody’s business why he got sent down.”

    I dunno, maybe the Marlins’ fans. All 5 of them.

    I’ll be completely honest…I almost never watch the Marlins play, and I certainly don’t watch them live.

    So I can’t really provide a subjective opinion on Morrison’s defensive abilities (when the Marlins played the Crew, I saw him make one great running catch, but I also thought he misread a ball and made his first step in and saw it go over his head).

    But he’s new to the position of LF, having played 1B throughout the minors.

    And the numbers say he’s been absolutely atrocious in the field.

    Now – I don’t for a second believe that that’s why the Marlins sent him down. They sent him down because he flaps his mouth and missed a meet&greet, and probably some stuff we don’t know about.

    But if they really want to justify it based on performance, they easily can. Morrison hasn’t exactly been an all-out stud this season.

  168. Raul Says:

    Great article on Trevor Bauer.

    Hope he does well and that these punks in baseball will unleash these pitchers.

  169. Cameron Says:

    He’s not been a stud in the field, but he’s one of the few guys that knows how to handle a bat somewhat competently. He’s got a .791 OPS. Not great, but it’s third-best on the team.

    But they didn’t justify it on that, they said it was because of his .249 batting average. Need I remind you this is the team who played a guy who hit under .249 twice with an iron glove at second base until this season.

  170. Cameron Says:

    The Astros selected Domingo Santana to be the PTBNL in the Hunter Pence trade and… What?

    The Detroit Tigers picked Delmon Young up for Cole Nelson and a PTBNL. Young’s been hurt twice so far and is in a power slump in between stints, but he’s better in the field this year (first positive UZR season).

    This was a buy-low on Detroit’s part, but after seeing what he did last season, it’s a steal if he comes near that again. To a division rival, too. Didn’t see that one coming.

  171. John Says:

    LoMo’s twitter, by the way, is hilarious. And I never see him ripping the team or his teammates on there.

  172. John Says:

    ” but he’s better in the field this year”

    I’m calling bullshit.

    Wanna know how he got hurt?

    Completely misjudged a ball at Miller Park and slipped on the warning track not realizing where he was to correct his mistakes.

    Delmon Young is one of the worst fielders I’ve ever seen.

  173. Raul Says:

    Delmon Young can hit.

    The problem is he has no plate discipline.

    And I’m not talking about walks. Robinson Cano is a guy who’ll rarely walk, but he swings at good pitches, most of the time.

    Delmon Young swings at everything. Him and Vernon Wells.
    It’s like they think they’re Vladimir Guerrero.

    They are not Vladimir Guerrero.

  174. Cameron Says:

    To be honest, I’m only going by the numbers. I haven’t paid enough attention to the Twins because they’re not an exciting team this year. Still, he’s shown some turnaround. He can still make mistakes, but hey.

    And yeah, they’re closer to Mark Reynolds than Vlad Guerrero, but look at what he did last year. He’s only a year removed from that and he’ll be 26 next year. He could come back to that performance easily.

    Plus, getting out of the PETCO Park of the AL would help anyone’s numbers. Comerica’s still a pitcher’s park, but he could do sometihng in there.

  175. Cameron Says:

    You gotta admit, for two minor league scrubs, Delmon Young ain’t a bad pick.

  176. John Says:

    Yeah. So…Magglio has been less than useless this season. What do you think, move Boesch over to right and play Young in left?

    Thing is, the Tigers are looking good right about now. The Indians are a very young team that is going to have to play an insane number of games from here-on-out.

  177. Raul Says:

    Am I looking into it too much by saying that Delmon Young is 26, a former #1 Overall Draft selection and he’s been traded twice already — by two teams that really had little power on the team at the time of the trades?

    It’s not like Cleveland in the mid-90s when they shipped out Richie Sexson and Brian Giles because they could hit like nobody’s business and it didn’t matter.

    The Twins and Rays have almost no power to begin with.

  178. Cameron Says:

    Cleveland’s good… But looking at Detroit, they can contend for a while. They’re not exactly an old man’s team, a lot of their guys are young and talented, both sides of the ball.

    …Mostly. They’re infield right now is Cabrera-Guillen-Peralta-Betemit. Betemit is on a one-year deal and Guillen’s got a fork in him. Their respective replacements are most likely Nick Castellanos and Ryan Raburn.

    I think Ordonez will probably be benched with Boesch going back to right and Young taking over in left. With Austin Jackson there, you can afford that.

  179. Cameron Says:

    I wouldn’t say you’re looking too much into it. It is a legitimate red flag. The trade to Minnesota brought in Jason Bartlett and Matt Garza, two guys who really helped Tampa, but this latest trade was for chicken feed for a guy who’s only 26.

    Like I said, Detroit was buying low while they could. Minnesota has a deep outfield and they can take the hit, really. They just didn’t want a guy who was injured and slumping to drag them down.

    Knowing Dombrowski’s track record in Detroit, I think it’ll work. Dave’s worked some great trades in Detroit. …Sucked in Florida, but Detroit canceled that out and then some.

  180. Raul Says:

    The Tigers have been screwed by some players developing a lot slower than they’d hoped.

    My guess is they were hoping Rick Porcello would be more of a #2 guy but he’s clearly a #4 at best.

    Then, didn’t they run through two 2nd basemen that were supposed to be good? Scott Sizemore and …I don’t remember. Some other kid.

    Verlander, Castellanos, Cabrera and Turner and Scherzer is probably the core, even if Cabrera and Verlander are a bit older.

    It’s early to give up on Jackson but with the step back he’s taken, my guess is that his peak is a lot closer to Delino DeShields than Kenny Lofton. Which may not seem like a significant difference, but Lofton was an impact player. DeShields…not so much.

  181. Cameron Says:

    Porcello is still a pretty solid #4. They’ve got Verlander, Scherzer, Fister, Porcello, and Jacob Turner will be ready for an everyday job next season. The bullpen works pretty well.

    Detroit’s a good team and they’re set to be long-term contenders. It’s a three-team race in the AL Central for the forseeable future, though Cleveland’s pitching depth really hinges on them either keeping Jiminez (considering how cheap he is and the fact Cleveland’s a contender, I could see Antonetti going for it) or getting a good haul for him (half the team on the field right now is basically formed by swindling guys in trades for star players), we’ll see.

  182. Raul Says:

    Cam,

    What do you think it’s going to take for KC to move up the AL Central ladder?
    Is it just a matter of time? Or does it hinge on specific guys?

  183. Cameron Says:

    It’s really gonna have to hinge on pitching. We have plenty of pitchers, but pitching prospects are always a crapshoot. If we had a decent rotation, we’d probably be contending. As it stands, we have the worst crop of starting pitchers in the MLB.

    However, Lamb’s hurt and other guys like Noel Arguelles are injury concerns as well. We have Hosmer, Moustakas, and Giavotella here, with Salvador Perez on the way. We need the starters to catch up to the rest of the hitters. Though the pitchers are collectively having a down year, it’s concerning.

    Though there is one bright light in the down year our pitching is having. Jake Odorizzi deciding to go out and hate-fuck the opposing teams. This kid could rocket through the minors at this rate.

  184. John Says:

    Nyjer Morgan has been epic this season, but check out his K/BB ratio:

    Strikeouts: 51
    Walks: 7

    I don’t blame him for not walking a ton, because he’s been hitting second in front of Braun and Fielder where he’s gonna see pitches to hit but…wow. 7 walks.

  185. Cameron Says:

    Morgan’s always been a swing first, ask questions later guy. He’s got good enough contact and legs to beat out hits a lot of guys won’t make.

    51 Ks isn’t bad, though. He doesn’t walk at all, but he puts it in play, and you want that out of a guy batting second.

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