Trade Gives Reds the Lead-off Man they were Missing
by JohnBowen
Last year, the Cincinnati Reds finished 97-65, winning their second NL Central Crown in three years. They outscored their opponents by exactly half a run per game and featured four starters with at least 200 innings pitched and an ERA+ over 110.
So it might be hard to find fault with their current model – but alas, they scored only 669 runs, putting them at the middle of the pack in the National League. This is despite playing at Great America Ballpark, which is a well-known launching pad.
Much of this could be attributed to two factors. One, of course, is the 2-month absence of mega-star first baseman Joey Votto, who was the National League’s best player in the first half. The other was the absence of a reliable table-setter.
The hodgepodge of players that Reds manager Dusty Baker inserted into the #1 spot in the order – a spot that sees more plate appearances than any other – managed some pretty atrocious numbers, including a meager .254 on-base percentage and a grand total of 10 stolen bases.
Yesterday, that all changed. The Reds acquired outfielder Shin-Soo Choo from the Cleveland Indians in a 3-way deal that sent top-tier pitching prospect Trevor Bauer along with outfielder Drew Stubbs and relievers Matt Albers & Bryan Shaw to the Indians, with the Arizona Diamondbacks receiving shortstop Didi Gregorius, reliever Tony Sipp, and first baseman Lars Anderson. Infielder Jason Donald also went to the Reds.
The Reds were neither the big winners nor the big losers in this trade. They sacrificed the least and received just one year out of the primary Major Leaguer involved. But for 2013, Shin-Soo Choo gives the Reds the missing piece they were looking for.
The 30-year old South Korean has a career on-base percentage of .381. He’ll add some pop to the top of the order, averaging 19 home runs and 38 doubles per 162 games for his career. He even adds a speed element that the lead-off spot was missing, averaging 20 stolen bases at a 77% success rate.
The one question is whether or not Choo – generally a right fielder for all but a handful of his career games – can adjust to center field, with Ryan Ludwick and Jay Bruce firmly entrenched in the corner outfield spots.
In either case, Joey Votto will find himself with a whole lot more ducks on the pond this season, and the Reds pitching will appreciate the extra support.
December 13th, 2012 at 12:04 am
Choo is a nice player, and should help the Reds at the top of the order.
Although it remains to be seen whether or not Dusty Baker bats him in the top 3rd of the lineup. After all, he could put him 7th just to spite you.
December 13th, 2012 at 12:20 am
Dusty Baker is like Ozzie Guillen in that he makes moves to his roster and lineup that make no goddamn sense… And still win a shitload of games in spite of their own seeming incompetence. Are we the real idiots and they’re true baseball geniuses, or are they just THAT goddamn lucky?
December 13th, 2012 at 12:58 am
I’m not sure, Cameron.
Here we are, apparently shredding Baker over his leadoff hitter production and a few years ago on this site, someone posted an article stating that statistically, lineups don’t even matter.
December 13th, 2012 at 1:32 am
That’s the thing with statistics. I think a lot of it is more meta-analysis than cut and dry. The thing is that baseball’s not an exact science, so by methodology’s own definition, anything you come up about it is just a theory. It’s not subject to experimentation (well, the game itself. Mythbusters did an episode about some baseball myths, but that’s about the acts of certain things and not the game as a whole). You can’t test it in a true lab setting, there aren’t proper controls, in/dependent variables, etc. Anything you extract from the numbers is analyzing the numbers themselves and not the whole process. Meta-analysis is a dangerous trap when you mistake it for proper analysis.
Lineups have a conventional wisdom, but when you think about it, you can conceivably say your best hitter should be leadoff despite the fact he hits homeruns and runs like pigfuck covered in molasses because they get on base the most and the hitter with the highest slugging percentage should be third and not cleanup to take advantage of the setup. Is that the case? …I have no goddamn idea. All we really have is conventional wisdom and our own perception when you think about it since there’s no true objective way to observe the game itself when viewed as a whole.
tl;dr, numbers =/= science
December 13th, 2012 at 7:42 am
From the Reds’ standpoint, this seems like a panic move.
Does anyone REALLY think Choo can play center?
More likely, Bruce ends up in center.
So, will Choo’s offense make up for what they’ll lose defensively?
December 13th, 2012 at 9:17 am
I don’t know.
Has Choo ever played CF?
Right fielders are right fielders for a reason. They are usually your worst defensive outfielders.
December 13th, 2012 at 9:37 am
Choo’s a free agent at the end of the year, so the Reds are also banking on Billy Hamilton being ready.
I understand they had to trade Stubbs because they didn’t think he’d be worth what he’d get in arbitration, but that’s a pretty big gamble if you ask me.
December 13th, 2012 at 10:24 am
Billy Hamilton = Willy Taveras
Same team, same player, different name.
December 13th, 2012 at 11:46 am
You know, with Hamilton’s speed…I don’t think he will be pushing 100 steals a year.
With someone that fast, he can score on a double from 1B easily. Getting to 2nd doesn’t make much difference in his particular case.
It’s getting to 1B that will be his challenge.
December 13th, 2012 at 11:59 am
“So, will Choo’s offense make up for what they’ll lose defensively?”
Drew Stubbs had a 61 OPS+ last year. So, I’m going to go with a pretty safe yes.
I don’t know if Choo can play CF. He’s got enough speed and a tremendous arm – but it’s the the instincts that really make the difference.
Jay Bruce played 205 games of CF in the minors, last playing the position in 2008. That year he also played 35 games of CF in the big leagues.
Choo played 151 games of CF in the minors, with just 10 games in the big leagues.
So I dunno – Bruce has added a fair amount of brawn since 2008 so my gut is that Choo would be better suited. We’ll see.
But I have a hard time believing he can possibly be bad enough to be an equivalent player to Stubbs.
December 13th, 2012 at 12:01 pm
Which makes him a pich-runner in waiting. Unless his defence is incredible.
December 13th, 2012 at 12:02 pm
Holy fuck: The Sox and Ryan Dempster are nearing a deal.
December 13th, 2012 at 12:07 pm
Is it 3 years, 39 million dollars?!?!
December 13th, 2012 at 12:10 pm
Probably. Why stop at Napoli and Victorino?
December 13th, 2012 at 2:22 pm
Dempster seemed to love Chicago. Not sure why he couldn’t stay in the area.
White Sox, Cubs and Brewers all could use him and all could have afforded him.
To go to Boston at this stage in his career…I don’t get it. Boston was a 3rd place team and the Blue Jays just got better.
December 13th, 2012 at 2:24 pm
Oops. Boston was last in the AL East last year.
December 13th, 2012 at 2:36 pm
They sure were. Which meant 5th. And when you are talking about 5th’s I prefer rum.
December 13th, 2012 at 2:37 pm
Angels to sign Hamilton!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
December 13th, 2012 at 2:40 pm
5 years, 125 million George Washington’s.
December 13th, 2012 at 2:45 pm
Mike Trout
Albert Pujols
Josh Hamilton
In the same motherfucking lineup.
Sigh.
December 13th, 2012 at 2:48 pm
Possibly Trumbo.
December 13th, 2012 at 3:36 pm
Holy effi’ crap
December 13th, 2012 at 4:22 pm
So who loses his job here? I’m thinking either Peter Bourjous (Trout shifts to center, Hamilton in left/right with Trumbo taking the other spot) or Kendry Morales (Trumbo DHs).
December 13th, 2012 at 4:38 pm
Morales, Trumbo, Bourjos.
Two of the three will report to spring training with another team.
Already hearing Bourjos and a reliever to the Mets for Dickey.
December 13th, 2012 at 4:41 pm
Heard active HOFers have formed a boycott where if any steriod user goes in, no one will show up.
And both MLB and the HOF are shitting their collective boxers.
December 13th, 2012 at 4:45 pm
Mets win that deal. Though the Angels can afford a sub-par deal.
December 13th, 2012 at 4:51 pm
What sort of evidence do they need?
1. In the Mitchell Report?
2. Testify before Congress?
3. Conjecture?
December 13th, 2012 at 4:53 pm
About 90% of living HOFers used greenies, so that’ll be a hoot.
December 13th, 2012 at 4:55 pm
And the other 10% used alcohol.
December 13th, 2012 at 4:58 pm
Greenies aren’t PED’s.
For the 9,343rd time.
December 13th, 2012 at 5:00 pm
Have a good night.
December 13th, 2012 at 5:00 pm
So, do you trade both Bourjos and Trumbo and see if Vernon Wells magically stops sucking?
December 13th, 2012 at 5:01 pm
“Greenies aren’t PED’s”
Lovely.
That’ll be a great comfort to Carlos Ruiz when he’s not playing baseball in April.
December 13th, 2012 at 5:04 pm
If Ruiz took greenies he’d be playing in April
December 13th, 2012 at 5:07 pm
Oh, what was he suspended for then?
December 13th, 2012 at 5:28 pm
Holy shit…you treat ADD with a psychostimulant?
That explains alot.
December 13th, 2012 at 5:54 pm
He was suspended for amphetamines.
Greenies are amphetamines.
Therefore, greenies are considered cheating by Major League Baseball.
And any HOFer who boycotts the ceremonies is a hypocrite.
December 13th, 2012 at 5:56 pm
Illegal, yes, steriod/PED no.
If Barry Bonds had only taken greenies he’d be a first ballot HOFer with 450 lifetime homers.
December 13th, 2012 at 5:57 pm
“Therefore, greenies are considered cheating by Major League Baseball.”
Greenies are illegal, not cheating.
December 13th, 2012 at 6:00 pm
@24 If I’m LA, I’m keeping Trumbo. Morales fell off the map and Bourjous is expendable. Plus, Trumbo DHing is a defensive upgrade.
December 13th, 2012 at 6:03 pm
Yeah, but Trumbo in RF?
I don’t know about that.
December 13th, 2012 at 6:03 pm
So, Wells in LF then?
December 13th, 2012 at 6:11 pm
Hamilton’s playing LF
December 13th, 2012 at 6:13 pm
Anibal Sanchez signed with the Cubs..damn, didn’t see that one coming either.
December 13th, 2012 at 6:18 pm
I’d DH Trumbo and put Wells in right. Wells is probably going to start if Bourjous leaves.
December 13th, 2012 at 7:22 pm
This is getting ridiculous. If you think greenies are even close to steroids, you’re either delusional or a fucking asshole.
It’s like saying jaywalking is the same as murder because they’re both crimes.
At this point, taking a goddamn “5-hour Energy” could trigger a 50 game suspension.
December 13th, 2012 at 7:23 pm
The Angels are wondering how much of Wells’ contract they’ll have to eat to trade him.
Word is no one is interested in him even if he was free.
December 13th, 2012 at 7:37 pm
Everybody else see that tweet from Torii Hunter today?
Basically calling Artie Moreno a liar.
December 13th, 2012 at 8:05 pm
Considering what stimulants do to your ability to focus, I’d say they’re performance decreasers. Seriously, sit next to a crackhead and watch them try to focus. It’s comedy watching them try to narrow their attention.
December 13th, 2012 at 8:16 pm
Nobody is saying greenies should be in the game.
But the whole “you’re no better than me because you took greenies and I took steroids” is bullshit.
December 13th, 2012 at 8:23 pm
There are a handful of players who should have been career minor leaguers who made a ton of money and qualified for a pension, in some cases at someone else’s expense, because they took steriods.
There’s not one player who made the major leagues because he popped speed.
To insinuate they are even remotely close is, well, Raul said it better than I could.
December 13th, 2012 at 8:27 pm
They don’t have to be the same. That’s not the point.
Greenies, droids, spitball, corking.
You cheated.
And to get high and mighty because you cheated in a different way is bullshit.
December 13th, 2012 at 8:32 pm
Tim Raines said this year that he couldn’t understand how a person got to the point where they had to take steroids.
That’s funny. I could say the same thing about using cocaine.
Anyway, it looks like the sabermetric poster boy that these people jizz over is a hypocrite too, huh…
What a joke.
December 13th, 2012 at 8:40 pm
I’ll tell ya…
This is a really long winter. I miss baseball so damn much.
I also remember now how much I hate the NBA.
December 13th, 2012 at 8:48 pm
Here’s the point John.
You’re a dickface. That’s just the way it is. But I still love ya.
Killing isn’t killing anymore than cheating is cheating.
There are differences. That’s why greenie-popping Mike Schmidt isn’t the same as steroid-injecting Sammy Sosa.
December 13th, 2012 at 8:56 pm
Ok. Sorry.
But come now. If 50 or 75% of MLB players were using steroids, and basically everyone had access, and it was legal, how was it cheating? Frankly, I might’ve even been pissed at a teammate who didn’t use.
Sosa hit 600 HR on steroids. But anyone can adjust for era and say that he was less good than Frank Robinson.
Robinson played in one era, Sosa another. Relative to their peers, there’s no question who was more dominant. Sosa honored off steroid users, Robinson honored off greenie users. Robinson was an all-time great. Sosa, not even close.
December 13th, 2012 at 9:05 pm
Uh, they weren’t legal. That’s the big thing. A fair amount of those steroids were…
A) Controlled substances (Illegal under US law.)
B) Obtained via fraudulent subscription (Also Illgal under US law.)
C) Still technically banned under MLB’s CBA (Illegal in the game, though not enforced.)
Nothing about it was right.
December 13th, 2012 at 9:10 pm
How was it cheating? Honestly…it’s a gray area. It’s just a line, albeit arbitrary, where a lot of people feel that it’s going too far to gain an unfair advantage.
A guy like Hossrex could give two shits about steroids (if I recall correctly).
A guy like Chuck bans them.
There’s no rule that says any great player…clean or not…must get in the HOF.
Bonds, Clemens, whoever…if they get in…I won’t agree —- well let me put it this way, because my feelings always change on this issue.
Bonds, McGwire, Clemens…these guys were great players. Steroids, no steroids…they were great players. Each year I get more tired of the HOF. If the argument is that they belong with other great players…with the caveat that they used steroids…then so be it. If the argument is that they should be banned from the HOF because we don’t want to celebrate them because of their use, but at the same time admit they were great players…that’s fine with me too
December 13th, 2012 at 9:11 pm
Not saying it was right. They were bad, and I’m glad they’re less prevalent now.
But it became the standard. And most of those HOFers would’ve used too given the same circumstances.
December 13th, 2012 at 9:12 pm
That reminds me of a great quote I heard once. “If Babe Ruth was alive today, he’d be using steroids. That’s the kind of guy he was, he loved to push the rules as far as he could.”
December 13th, 2012 at 9:15 pm
I’m certain Ruth would likely have juiced in today’s day if he could.
Or he would have been the same bar-brawling, alcoholic wild man that David Wells was. Which is funny, because Wells admired Ruth a lot.
I remember some game with the Yankees where David Wells wore Ruth’s baseball cap that he purchased for …I dunno…several hundred thousand dollars.
December 13th, 2012 at 9:17 pm
I was mistaken..he only paid $35,000 for the cap.
December 13th, 2012 at 9:27 pm
Just in case anyone was interested:
Mark Trumbo 2012 1st half:
.306/.358/.608
Mark Trumbo 2012 2nd half:
.227/.271/.359
This guy is a lot closer to Adam Dunn than people think.
He also struck out 87 times in the 2nd half, in 73 games (313 PA)
December 13th, 2012 at 9:35 pm
Oh, he’s an unmistakable Adam Dunn clone, but young Adam Dunn was a force at the plate. As DH for the Angels, he’s a dream come true if all pans out.
December 13th, 2012 at 9:38 pm
Agreed on Trumbo.
December 13th, 2012 at 9:40 pm
It’s probably fair to say that Trumbo can OPS in the .800s
But he’s gotta be used wisely.
December 13th, 2012 at 9:43 pm
Exactly, DHing.
December 13th, 2012 at 9:45 pm
With Mike Trout’s skill, I don’t think I’d want him leading off.
His bat is too important.
Would be cool if he could bat 2nd or 3rd…but with Aybar and Callaspo on the roster…ugh…putting those guys at the top of the order is a crime
December 13th, 2012 at 9:51 pm
1) Kendrick (Decent enough speed, ..280-300 hitter)
Callaspo (Slap single hitter with less speed than Aybar)
2) Trout (Speed, contact, enough power not to clean the bases too often here)
3) Pujols (.300-30-100, need I say more?)
4) Hamilton (Also a .300-30-100 guy, but Pujols is more contact while Josh is power)
5) Trumbo (Potential 30 HR guy)
6) Wells (If Bourjous leaves, he’s taking over in right)
7) Chris Ianetta (Coin-flip between him and Wells, really)
9) Aybar (Slap single hitter with more speed than Callaspo)
December 13th, 2012 at 9:54 pm
Is Scoscia going to lead off with 3 straight righthanded batters?
Well, shit, I guess he doesn’t have a choice. No lefties there besides Hamilton.
I keep reading these rumors about Bourjos and relievers for RA Dickey.
I’m sorry, Dickey may be old but he’s gotta bring in more than Bourjos. I don’t get the fucking hype over this kid. He’s Carlos Gomez. Defender with some speed…no bat.
I’m not trading a Cy Young winner for a fucking 4th outfielder…no matter how old the pitcher is.
December 13th, 2012 at 9:56 pm
If you’re the Mets, after seeing what the Rays got for James Shields…how do you not ask for at least 1 top prospect from a team?
You gotta get at least a team’s #3 guy in the minors
December 13th, 2012 at 9:57 pm
He may be a Cy Young winner, but be realisitc. It was a fluke season for a 38 year old knuckleballer.
December 13th, 2012 at 10:00 pm
That may be. But it’s not like Dickey came out of nowhere.
He’s been good for like 3 years now.
His last 3 years have been better than any 3 year stretch Shields put together.
December 13th, 2012 at 10:01 pm
I’ll keep the non-baseball shit to a minimum…but this made me chuckle
http://imgur.com/bP9nR
December 13th, 2012 at 10:11 pm
I’ll give you that. 2.95 ERA over three years, not to mention the fact that knuckleballers age like fine wine. However, can we really expect him to be the next Phil Niekro? Does he really have 10 years left in him? They need more than Bourjous, sure, but I think you can settle low as… Him, two relievers, and no lower than the #6 prospect.
December 13th, 2012 at 10:11 pm
Bourjos is cost-controlled forever and Dickey has one year left – in a year where his team won’t compete.
It’s one thing if the Mets think they can get a better offer. But this is about more than their relative skill sets.
December 13th, 2012 at 11:03 pm
I get that.
It’s about saving money because they’re tapped out. But Bourjos sucks.
Even in 2011 when he played fulltime, he hit .271/.327/.438 with 32 walks and 124 strikeouts.
A bucket of rocks won’t cost you much to maintain but it’s still a bucket of rocks.
If the best they can get for Dickey is Bourjos and Walden…they should just let Dickey walk. I’d rather have the sandwich pick instead of those two bags of shit.
December 13th, 2012 at 11:08 pm
Walden’s in Atlanta. Straight up for Tommy Hanson.
I’m still wondering how the fuck they pulled that off.
December 13th, 2012 at 11:09 pm
I think you’re underestimating Bourjos’s fielding. Before this Hamilton business, Scoscia was talking about starting Bourbon in C.F. and shifting Trout to LF. Trout was the one of the very best defensive C.F. in the game last year. That should tell you something about Bourjos.
The Mets may be able to do better though.
Also: Walden was already traded for Hanson.
December 13th, 2012 at 11:19 pm
Ah, that’s right. Forgot Walden was traded.
Only reason I think Scoscia would put Bourjos in the lineup is because between Bourjos and Vernon Wells…both are shitty bats…but Bourjos can field better.
Otherwise, Bourjos is a 4th, 5th outfielder. Ideally, Wells is the odd man out. But his contract is going to dictate that Bourjos gets traded.
The Mariners have a deeper prospect pool than the Angels. Problem is Seattle is deep with pitching prospects, so Dickey is of no use to them…but that’s where I would have looked if the Mets wanted to steal from a deep system.
Dickey is from Kentucky or Tennessee…which I suppose isn’t too far from Baltimore. Wonder if there’s a deal to be made there. Gets Dickey out of the NL East…
December 14th, 2012 at 4:52 am
Glad most all see thatall cheating is not equal. Greenies were not even banned until ‘73, steroids less than 2 decades later, & their effects on basic capabilities, body & performance are not comparable.
We also do not know at all whether under 1/3, 1/2, or the vast majority used PEDs, at least once or occasionally. Either way many did not, the playing field was vastly unequal, & honest people lost jobs, fortune, & their life’s dreams to cheaters & liars.
I can appreciate your exasperation Raul, & shifting opinions about what we should do re: honoring folks in the HOF. Though personally not admitting users unless they admit & apologize sincerely, + were clearly good enough clean, solves the problem of honoring greatness, integrity, & providing a small measure of redemption.
December 14th, 2012 at 9:06 am
In 2011, Bourjos hit .271/.327/.438.
Not overwhelming numbers, of course.
If he can do *that* then his defense is good enough to make him a starting CF on 25 or so teams in the game.
December 14th, 2012 at 9:34 am
I think the Tigers will retain Sanchez.
December 14th, 2012 at 10:23 am
They do indeed retain him.
1. Verlander
2. Scherzer
3. Sanchez
4. Fister
5. Porcello
6. Drew Smyly
7. Does one guy go to the pen, or do they attempt to make a trade?
December 14th, 2012 at 11:17 am
Mike,
I don’t pretend to have a firm stance on the issue. If we’re going to tell these guys to admit their use and apologize in order to get in the HOF, it may set a precedent that allows for increased steroid use in the game by future players.
Maybe it’s just a one-time thing. Maybe it depends on the player and the situation.
If Pete Rose admitted to betting on games in ‘89, apologized for it and admitted he had a gambling problem and sought help, he may well be in the Hall of Fame today. If Bonds had admitted it in the beginning…if Clemens had admitted it instead of pursuing legal action…they might have been forgiven already and people might even be looking forward to their inductions. But they didn’t.
Then again, maybe apologizing doesn’t do anything. Melky Cabrera lied about his use. He admitted it — a lot sooner than just about any other PED user — and he’s widely hated in the media and game right now.
The only guys I can think of that have some modest level of redemption or respect at this point are Andy Pettitte and Jason Giambi. But Giambi’s use was exposed before anyone else’s, so maybe it’s just that enough time has gone by in his case.
With regard to the rumors Chuck heard about current HOFers not showing up should a user get elected, I find it hard to have a problem with that. To be fair to John, maybe they are hypocrites. But maybe it’s also fair for the current members to protest a player that will receive the game’s greatest honor, but did questionable things on the road to get it.
December 14th, 2012 at 11:23 am
Well Bob,
Porcello is a flame-throwing scrub. He probably should go to the bullpen and they run with Verlander, Scherzer, Sanchez, Fister and Smiley.
No trades. Having an abundance of starters is a great problem to have.
The Yankees had too many starters last year…then David Phelps, Andy Pettitte and Freddy Garcia were all needed.
December 14th, 2012 at 11:37 am
What if you’re the Dodgers though?
EIGHT starters for next year. That’s absurd.
December 14th, 2012 at 11:46 am
Well, the game is getting specialized these days with their LOOGYs and closers and such.
Maybe they can split the games into thirds…and Josh Beckett wins the NL Cy Young with 53 IP and a 0.77 ERA
December 14th, 2012 at 11:49 am
I’m surprised that Porcello only has 384 career K’s. For some reason I thought of him as being like Brandon Morrow…crappy, but crappy with a ton of K’s. Guess not.
Last year, Porcello held batters to a .271/.313/.366 line on the first time through the order, better than league average.
On the 2nd PA: .301/.341/.467
On the 3rd PA: .365/.415/.538
Sounds like a great relief candidate to me.
December 14th, 2012 at 11:57 am
Right?
You would think the kid would have tons of strikeouts. He has the ability to throw just as hard as Verlander.
December 14th, 2012 at 11:58 am
Porcello throws high 90s at will. Problem is it’s all down broadway. I don’t care if it’s 107 miles an hour, you leave it over the middle of the plate, you deserve to get shelled.
December 14th, 2012 at 12:01 pm
Definitely.
But he pitches alongside Verlander…and has for years now.
Shouldn’t some of Verlander’s tips and skills have gotten through to Porcello?
December 14th, 2012 at 12:04 pm
Well, Verlander also has a curve and a change to offset his heat. Porcello has a weak curve and no change. All he has is high 90s up the middle. Aroldis Chapman is a better pitcher than him.
December 14th, 2012 at 12:41 pm
So, this Mexican singer Jenni Rivera who died the other day was married to Esteban Loaiza.
They were in divorce proceedings over the fact he was accused of banging his step-daughter.
December 14th, 2012 at 12:52 pm
The fucked up thing? That girl was molested by Rivera’s first husband too.
December 14th, 2012 at 1:35 pm
It is sad that all those people died in the plane crash.
I have to admit though…that I never heard of Jenni Rivera until she died.
I also never heard of Selena until she died.
Not all latinos listen to the same music.
December 14th, 2012 at 1:59 pm
I never heard of either of them, either.
“Not all latinos listen to the same music.”
They all sound alike.
December 14th, 2012 at 2:06 pm
I’m dominican bro.
Go to a party in LA and go to one in Washington Heights.
May both be filled with drunk families that have 7 kids, but the music is very different. LOL.
December 14th, 2012 at 2:09 pm
Am I drunk?
“May both be filled…”
I meant “Both may be filled…”
December 14th, 2012 at 2:18 pm
The school in CT where those two assholes shot little kids is ten miles from where I grew up and my wife’s cousin lives in Newtown.
December 14th, 2012 at 2:55 pm
Hope she and her family are safe.
December 14th, 2012 at 3:07 pm
Tragic stuff.
December 14th, 2012 at 4:42 pm
Damn that was a good post Raul. All true, I did not consider that users might be enabled if forgiven & inducted (if good enough clean). I think likely if we both increase penalties & keep the social opprobrium on users, this possible effect will be negated.
but you are right about what could have been for the greats, & how opinions vary on admitted cheaters. Much of this is encouraging, since folks can be discerning about degree of usage & sincerity of admissions. Petitte has much good will for his integrity,& kindness, & his usage seemed like no big game changer, pardon the pun. Not so on either account for Clemens.
December 14th, 2012 at 4:43 pm
28 dead, 20 of them children. Just horrific trauma. I hope your family & friends around there, & wife’s family deal well with & are well supported in the wake of this tragedy Chuck.
December 14th, 2012 at 4:59 pm
I haven’t heard anything, so I assume everything’s good.
My wife said her cousin’s two kids actually went to that school but graduated three, four years ago..they’re both in junior high, that school is on the same road about a mile away.