What is the Mets’ Next Move with Dickey?
by JohnBowen
It has become increasingly clear that the New York Mets are unwilling to offer reigning NL Cy Young award winner R.A. Dickey a contract extension – at least not one suitable to him. They have reportedly gone as high as 2 years, 20 million dollars, or slightly better than the deal landed by reigning Los Angeles Area Hot Dog Eating Contest champion Joe Blanton.
The issue for the Mets, of course, is Dickey’s age; the knuckle-baller is 38 years old. While knuckle-ballers have a longer shelf-life than typical pitchers, you can’t exactly bank on them being worth 15 million dollars a year as 39 and 40 year-olds.
This has led to speculation that the Mets may be willing to trade their ace.
The Toronto Blue Jays have been mentioned as a possible suitor. The latest trade talks have involved a package centered around J.P. Arencibia, a catcher with a .275 career on-base percentage.
The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim have been mentioned as well – their deal would involve Peter Bourjos and/or Mark Trumbo.
The Orioles are reportedly in the mix as well, and you know that Texas – after missing out on Greinke and Hamilton – will want to be in on the action.
So, readers of Dugout Central – where do you see the Mets sending Dickey for the last year of his current deal, and what kind of a haul do you think he produces?
December 15th, 2012 at 10:07 am
Doesn’t the knuckleball need wind currents or varying temperatures to work..throwing one in a dome doesn’t seem like it would have the same effect.
December 15th, 2012 at 10:27 am
For his career, Joe Niekro was 73-52 with a 2.89 ERA in 155 career starts at the Astrodome.
I guess it doesn’t matter
December 15th, 2012 at 10:36 am
I think the currents can be very slight. Even air conditioning can produce the desired effect.
Joe’s brother Phil pitched most of his games at Atlanta Fulton County Stadium which was similar to Skydome when retracted…it was basically the same as the other cookie cutters (Riverfront, 3-Rivers, etc) except without the offensive monstrosity that is astroturf.
December 15th, 2012 at 10:39 am
Now d’Arnaud is apparently on the table. If that’s the case, the Angels will have to do way better than Bourjos to match.
If I’m the Blue Jays, I definitely want such a trade to net more than just RA Dickey for one year.
December 15th, 2012 at 11:21 am
RA Dickey just won the Cy Young.
Age is a concern but the Mets are being assholes in saying that 2/26M is too much for Dickey…after they gave David Wright 140 million dollars.
It’s not like Dickey is asking for a ton of money here. Son of a bitch…how about some loyalty and respect.
This is just indicative of the ineptitude of the Mets organization. Will Dickey be worth 13M two years from now? Maybe, maybe not. But you gotta buy some fucking goodwill here. It’s just good business. I could see them drawing a line in the sand with a jerkoff player, but Dickey is arguably the most loved Mets player today.
Doubt many players think like I do, but if I was a pending FA and I just saw that the Mets wouldn’t even take care of a beloved reigning Cy Young winner…there’s no way I’d sign there. Especially after they ignored another franchise cornerstone in Jose Reyes recently.
December 15th, 2012 at 11:25 am
I agree, Raul.
Wright’s deal was at least as much a PR move as it was a deal to retain a great player. It’s a guarantee that he won’t be worth 20 million dollars in 2019.
And the Mets miss that PR away over what? 6 million dollars? 3 per year? That’s what is separating these camps.
So dumb.
December 15th, 2012 at 11:30 am
From what I’ve read, domes are somewhat ideal for a knuckleball pitcher because they don’t have to deal with precipitation and humidity levels are usually neutral. I think the one problem might be that the Skydome/Rogers’ Centre is a pretty good hitter’s park and then Dickey is also going to have to pitch against those A.L. East teams with a DH. The one thing that might worry me if I’m the Blue Jays is that Dickey has been about league avg. in the N.L. for HR/9 even though he was pitching in one of the best pitcher’s parks in the N.L. Now you’re going to take him out of the N.L. put him in a good hitter’s park and stick him in the A.L. East….
I think the best place for Dickey out of the teams mentioned is the Angels. They play in Anaheim so you don’t have to worry about humidity levels and precipitation and they play in a great pitcher’s park.
I would think Texas would be a horrible place for Dickey to pitch with the humidity and it’s also one of the best hitter’s parks in baseball.
I’ve seen d’Arnoud and Anthony Gose mentioned as possible trading chips to get Dickey. d’Arnoud is a top 20 prospect from baseball America and Gose was a #39 prospect in 2012. I’ve read a bit about d’Arnoud but I don’t know anything about Gose. Maybe Chuck has seen them play and give his opinion.
December 15th, 2012 at 11:32 am
If the Mets are able to get d’Arnaud, I think they probably have to do it.
That’s a better haul than Bourjos and a book of stamps.
Doesn’t look like d’Arnaud has a ton of plate discipline. Walks aren’t that impressive in the minors. But he can hit. Not sure if my comparison to Salvador Perez is out of line.
Now there are whispers that Anthony Gose could also be in the deal. Thought Gose was a good prospect…maybe he is. But the kid hit .286/.366/.419. Good patience. The kid gets on base. But I would have expected A LOT better numbers playing in the PCL last year.
December 15th, 2012 at 11:34 am
That said…I’d rather take the shot on Gose over Peter Bourjos any day.
December 15th, 2012 at 12:03 pm
@6 John,
I think the Alderson was just being pragmatic. Dickey pitches that hard knuckleball and they’d be paying him for his age 39 & 40 seasons. They did offer him 2 years for $20 million. Again, this is for a guy who was just barely playing in the majors. He’s coming off a Cy Young season and he’s only going to paid $5 million next year so he’s probably at his peak as far as overall value. The Mets are going to suck next year anyway maybe 2014 as well so if they can get a top prospect for Dickey, it’s probably worth it.
December 15th, 2012 at 12:23 pm
I have no problem with the Mets wanting to capitalize on what is likely Dickey’s peak value.
This is the perfect time to do it.
Baseball is a business and you need to make business decisions.
But the Mets front office is basically giving a nice big “fuck-you” to the guy that just won the Cy Young Award, and a further “fuck-you” to the fans.
Be straight with Dickey, be straight with the people. Don’t act like he’s being a greedy pri madonna and demanding a mega-deal.
December 15th, 2012 at 12:39 pm
I don’t value Anthony Gose all too highly. He gets on base now, but he’s had shaky contact all throughout the minors and his real saving grace is his speed. I think of him as a Rajai Davis-lite. And that ain’t saying much. Physically good, yes, but not a whole lot of projectability at the plate.
December 15th, 2012 at 1:09 pm
I get that, Cameron.
But Gose is a CFer, and if he can do something like .270/.360/.435…that should put him at least in the middle of the pack of centerfielders in the game…somewhere around the Angel Pagan range.
I mean…is Gose that much worse an option than Kirk Nieuwenhuis?
December 15th, 2012 at 1:18 pm
Gose is not in the trade.
December 15th, 2012 at 1:22 pm
“Maybe Chuck has seen them play and give his opinion.”
I have seen him.
Legit 80 speed and arm (pitched in HS, clocked at 97).
Bat slow to develop, but he’d be the Mets’ best OF.
Moot at this point because he’s not in the trade, at least as of now.
December 15th, 2012 at 2:20 pm
Some loyalty and respect for Dickey? He is not a lifelong Met like Wright. Good God,the Mets could offer him what the Sox offered Wakefield, with perhaps a million more bucks for inflation. They owed Jose Reyes more loyalty than Dickey.
December 15th, 2012 at 2:24 pm
@11 John,
Well, I don’t see them giving Dickey a big “Fuck You”. They offered him $20 million dollars for his age 39 & 40 seasons. Remember this is a guy who pitched only 33 innings in the major leagues from 2005-2006 didn’t play at all in 2007 and then he was pretty awful in 2008 & 2009 in limited work. The Mets gave him an opportunity to pitch in 2010 because they were awful and had no other options. He’s the one who agreed to a 2 year $7.8 million contract with a $5 million option back in 2011.
Go back and see how often a 39-40 year old pitchers have pitched 150 innings or 200 innings in a season since 1992. Only 30 pitchers between the ages of 39-40 years old have pitched 150 innings and only 17 have pitched over 200 innings.
December 15th, 2012 at 2:29 pm
@John,
And the Mets don’t have to offer Dickey anything because he’s still under contract for next year. They know they can’t compete in 2013 so Dickey is expendable plus he’s only making $5 million. Also it doesn’t make any sense for them to offer him a huge contract before they exhaust their trade possibilities.
December 15th, 2012 at 3:04 pm
Give me a fucking break.
I don’t give a shit what RA Dickey did or didn’t do in two thousand fucking five.
RA Dickey has virtually been one of like 2 bright spots with this team for 3 years…In the aftermath of that Madoff scandal and Jason Bay robbery.
Yeah. You do owe the guy a little something. They have financial restraints because they’re in Queens? Did you not read the 140 million dollar extension? They bid against themselves for a 3rd baseman that nobody was going to pay within 30 million of what they offered.
Now 6 million dollars is a bridge too far?
The Mets, if that’s their argument, can go fuck themselves. Because you and I all know that the 6 million that was too much for Dickey will get spent on some fuckface 7th inning guy and a 9th inning pinch runner.
December 15th, 2012 at 3:09 pm
Does Dickey not owe them something as well? He was a Mariner castoff who was able to use the subpar Queens media into a huge platform for various topics. Think his stories would have sold in a Seattle Starbucks?
December 15th, 2012 at 3:40 pm
I hardly think the Mets were a big reason for the book sales of RA Dickey’s book.
But I could be wrong.
December 15th, 2012 at 3:52 pm
The Mets don’t owe Dickey anything monetarily, other than the 5M they contractually owe for next year.
It’s very transparent what’s happening here. The Mets know that now is the time to trade Dickey. It’s the correct baseball move. I have no issues with that.
Where I have issues with is playing a game where you try to make Dickey out to be some villain. Insisting he’s a selfish player and such. They’re taking a crap on the one bright spot in their organization over the last couple years.
December 15th, 2012 at 3:57 pm
Trading Dickey is a terrible PR move for the Mets. They could have given David Wright one less year and signed Dickey to the two years he wanted..the money is virtually the same.
The people defending the Mets in this, saying they have “no choice” in trading Dickey, are full of shit.
December 15th, 2012 at 3:59 pm
They have a choice, I agree. Keep him or trade him.
December 15th, 2012 at 6:35 pm
At this point, the trade is all but happening.
The two main pieces are Dickey and d’Arnaud. The other pieces are just being worked out.
This is indisputably the right baseball move for the Mets. But their smear campaign is utterly indefensible.
December 15th, 2012 at 7:49 pm
Santo Domingo.– Alexander Reyes, a Dominican pitcher who was born in the United States, was signed by the Cardinals for US$950,000, one of the biggest bonuses of the year for an international amateur pitcher.
Reyes, 18, grew up in New Jersey with his parents Thomas and Dignora, but he moved to Palenque, San Cristobal, in the Dominican Republic, and waited one year to be eligible to sign, Diario Libre reported.
According to the Dominican Prospect League (DPL) founder and president Brian Mejia, Reyes’ bonus is the second-biggest of the year for a Dominican pitcher, only behind righthander Juan Carlos Paniagua, who was signed for US$1.5 million by the Cubs.
December 15th, 2012 at 9:14 pm
Translation:
The kid’s probably a sixth round pick and would have gotten $150 grand.
Let’s go to the Dominican and have all these dumbass ML teams think we grew up chopping sugar cane and playing ball with cardboard and a roll of tape.
Because, you know, being an “international free agent” has some sort of magical ring to it.
December 15th, 2012 at 10:01 pm
You’re likely right.
It’s much harder to get a high signing bonus here in the states.
Sure, the top guys get money anywhere. But by and large, American prospects don’t get money purely on speculation and raw talent the way Dominicans do.
Here you have to prove yourself in the highest levels of college. In the DR, you hardly even play organized games and they’re rating you by your tools.
December 15th, 2012 at 11:50 pm
Not that I know anything, but I think it’s the other way around.
Signing international free agents is like shopping at a flea market. You buy ten pieces of crap hoping you can salvage one or two.
If Jorge Soler came to the US at 15 and went to HS for three years, he would have been a top ten pick and got five, six times more than he did.
I think tools do play a bigger factor because the prestige of playing at ASU or Florida State isn’t there, it’s like you’re drawing on a clean slate.
December 16th, 2012 at 9:44 am
I’m just saying. A guy who would be like a 10th rounder could get signed in DR with a bonus of like 40K
Here, that kids getting a happy meal.
Or maybe I’m wrong with the compensation