Thomas Wayne Asks: Who Got the Better Deal?
by Chuck
By Thomas Wayne
A couple of weeks ago, the Tigers signed Anibal Sanchez to a five year deal worth $80 million dollars. I personally thought this was crazy for that sum of money even though I think Sanchez has a solid upside at the tender age of 28.
Today the new brass in charge of the Cubs, apparently still smarting over Sanchez deciding to return to Detroit, gave 29 year old Edwin Jackson a four year contract worth $52 million bucks.
I like Jackson as well, but believe the Cubs not only got the better deal financially, but also the better pitcher, even though the stats may say otherwise.
So, your homework for today is simple; digest both signings, then discuss which club got the better deal based on the money involved.
Is the Sanchez deal better at $80 than Jackson’s at $52?
Let the discussion begin….
December 20th, 2012 at 9:56 pm
I’m sorry, but $16 million a year for Anibal is looney tunes.
Take away his 10-3 seventeen start rookie year and he’s ten games below .500.
Fourteen mil is a bit much for EJ too, but, damn.
December 20th, 2012 at 10:16 pm
Pardon my french, but what the fucking fuck? This is Mike Hampton level stupid.
December 20th, 2012 at 10:35 pm
What is Cameron? The question or the salaries? lol.
December 20th, 2012 at 10:41 pm
Anibal Sanchez. Sixteen million. Have I lost my goddamn mind?
December 21st, 2012 at 10:41 am
No….you haven’t lost your mind (at least on the Anibal Sanchez thing). The numbers say he’s been a better picther than Jackson but I believe that’s largely in part to Jackson pitching in the majors since he was like 12 years old…lol. The first four or five years were so bad the overall numbers are a bit suggestive, and in the wrong way.
Obviously I give the Cubs and their fans as much shit as possible but I think the Jackson signing is terrific. He’s been a solid arm for World Series caliber teams the past two years and at 29 looks like he’s ready to come into his own.
Sanchez? I don’t know. He’s 28 and solid, but when I watch him pitch I always get the feeling we’ve seen the best this guy has to offer. I think this is a case of the Tigers jumping the gun to resign a pitcher they felt would get huge free agent interest – and maybe they were right – but that huge interest would have peaked at $12 mill a year tops. I think no matter how you slice it Detroit over paid by a minimum of $20 million on the life of this deal.
Of course, if you are a TIgers fan or a Tigers player or executive, if this guy gets hot in October and dominates and helps the Tigers win….he will have been worth every penny.
December 21st, 2012 at 11:57 am
The Sanchez signing also enables Detroit to get creative with Porcello and/or Smyly. Looking at teams today in the Americal league Detroit makes the playoffs, along with the Angels.
December 21st, 2012 at 12:31 pm
Appears Mike Napoli failed his physical with the Red Sox and they are now trying to restructure the original offer.
December 21st, 2012 at 2:35 pm
I saw that. Hope they can work something out.
December 21st, 2012 at 2:38 pm
Pitching is just crazy expensive now and so unpredictable. Who knows you might get 1 good year then the guy gets hurt or he just can’t pitch anymore. I think the best bet is for teams to grow their own pitchers and then spend on position players.
Sanchez is the better pitcher but that contract is crazy. If he’s worth $16 per year, what’s Verlander worth? $30-40 million per year? Sanchez is probably worth at best a a 4 year $40-50 million dollar contract. And even at that there’s no guarantee that he’s healthy for 4 years and puts up his 190 innings each year. But I guess the Tigers are in a pinch because they’re a “win now” team so they have to get pitching.
The Jackson contract isn’t as bad but it doesn’t make any sense for the Cubs. It’s an overpay and Jackson is probably worth something like $36-40 for 4 years. They’re were a terrible 71 win team last year and Jackson isn’t in any way a difference maker. I can’t see spending $50 million on Edwin Jackson making any sense for the Cubs.
December 21st, 2012 at 2:54 pm
Sandy Rosiaro is now with the Giants. Which begs this question: Who wins this trade: Eli Whiteside for Sandy Rosiaro?
December 21st, 2012 at 2:56 pm
The Richmond Flying Squirrels?
December 21st, 2012 at 2:57 pm
Good guess.
December 21st, 2012 at 3:37 pm
Is Sandy Rosario Wilin’s wife?
December 21st, 2012 at 3:40 pm
Speaking of the Jets, rumors are surfacing that they want Michael Vick.
December 21st, 2012 at 3:49 pm
They should just resign Namath.
Maybe Kenny O’Brien or Tony Eason aren’t busy.
December 21st, 2012 at 3:50 pm
There’s rumors here (started by John Clayton) that the Cardinals want Vick.
December 21st, 2012 at 3:57 pm
LOL @ 15
December 21st, 2012 at 4:01 pm
While I should be around tomorrow for a bit, I wanted to make sure I say merry Christmas to you guys. After tomorrrow, I may be sans computer ( or have sparodic access) for 3-4 days.
December 21st, 2012 at 4:20 pm
Thanks, Bob, you too.
I’ll be around tomorrow, probably not Sunday, a little on Monday, and not Tuesday.
December 24th, 2012 at 9:56 am
Can anyone explain the Nick Swisher deal to me?
The Indians just paid him $56 million for 4 years, his age 32-35 years. The Indians have one of the worst pitching staffs in baseball and just traded their best offensive player (Choo). They where a 70 win team last year and nowhere near competitive so how does this deal make any sense?
Swisher is a lifetime .256/.361/.467 average fielding right-fielder who is 32 years old. The Indians are a terrible team years away from being competitive so why would they commit this kind of money to Nick Swisher? At best Swisher is a guy that draws a lot of walks and has power but he doesn’t play a premium defensive position, has no speed, he’s 32 and he’s a complimentary player. Then they lose a draft pick to the Yankees for signing Swisher. To me, this is the strangest free agent signing since Jason Werth.
December 24th, 2012 at 10:02 am
It is strange, especially the years.
That’s why some teams spin their wheels from year to year without improving.
They did all right with the STubbs/Bauer deal though.
December 24th, 2012 at 12:25 pm
Oh definitely, the Stubbs/Bauer deal was a good move. I’m just kind of blown away by the dollar amount in some of these contracts for average to good players.
Swisher is a nice player in a complimentary role but is he really worth $16 million per year?? What’s he done in his career? A 10th place slugging percentage finish in 2010, An 8th place Runs scored in 2006, an 8th place finish in HR in 2006 and a 9th place finish in HR in 2010, And 6 top ten finishes in walks?? Maybe if he played a premium position he would be worth that type of money but a right fielder ages 32-35? And at this point in his career he’s probably a below average fielder.
I could even see if the team was competitive on the verge of a playoff run maybe you make an overpay but the Indians are terrible and probably years away from being a competitive team. I really don’t get it, the whole thing seems crazy to me.
December 24th, 2012 at 1:25 pm
I know…some of these contracts..Swisher..Anibal…Victorino…are real head scratchers.
Heck, Stephen Drew got $9.5 million for one year.
$9.5 mil for Stephen Drew?
Holy overpay, Santa Claus.
December 24th, 2012 at 3:43 pm
Yeah, I would think at that talent level and the ages of those players that at some point G.M’s say the hell with it, I’ll just pay some minor league guy and see what happens. And Drew is coming off a horrible year and 2011 wasn’t much better. He’s going to be 30 years old he’s a below average defender at this point in his career. Yeah, I don’t get that one either. I guess the Red Sox are in such a mess that they had to get a SS so they just paid him?
I was thinking about Swisher getting $16 million per year for 4 years ages 32-35 and thinking back on Vlad’s contract with Angels. It was something like 6 years for $80 million and I remember people going crazy like that was way too much money. And I’m not talking about ancient history either, that was just back in 2004. It’s amazing, Vlad never made more than $15 million and Swisher will earn $16 million next season.
December 24th, 2012 at 4:18 pm
I agree completely Len, Chuck, Cam…So what is the most, given this market & team offering, that Swisher should have been offered? 1/2 that?
Merry X=Mas everyone.
December 24th, 2012 at 4:33 pm
4/56 is $14 million…still too much regardless.
December 24th, 2012 at 4:37 pm
He made $10.2 last year.
The breakdown for the contract is 11, 15, 15, 15.
I would have done it the other way around..front loading.
He may be worth more than 13-14 at 32, but no way he’ll be worth more than 9-10 at 36.
December 24th, 2012 at 5:09 pm
My bad on the math, good catch.
December 24th, 2012 at 9:52 pm
Intangibles?
Who knows, every year stupid money is thrown around for what are essentially interchangeable players. Except his family, no one ever went to a ball park to see Nick Swisher play. Thankfully Cleveland gave him the money and not the RS, though they did give Steven Drew the aforementioned $9.5M, but only for one year.
December 24th, 2012 at 10:33 pm
Swish? …Given his age and production, my estimates would placed him at a Victorino-esque contract. My estimate would be roughly 3/37.5. What he’d be worth… Depends on the team and his spot in the field. I think he might have more value going back to first base at this point, and if you ask me, he’s probably going to be there in Cleveland given the abysmal turn of events for Matt LaPorta. I expect his actual worth…
Don’t laugh, about 8 million a year. If Kipnis and Chisenhall bat ahead of him and develop as expected.
December 24th, 2012 at 10:37 pm
12/4/12 – “Texas Rangers signed free agent RHP Joakim Soria.”
….RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
December 25th, 2012 at 12:11 pm
Not your 1st estimation above of over 12, actually 8 Million per year?
Quite arguably correct.
Merry X-Mas All!
December 26th, 2012 at 12:11 pm
Edwin Jackson is at least an innings eater. That was an overpay, but not too egregious.
80 million for a guy who has never made it to 200 IP. I’m with you guys. Wow.
December 26th, 2012 at 12:14 pm
Thanks for the birthday tweet, John…”WAR aficionado”…priceless…LOL.
December 26th, 2012 at 1:32 pm
The Drew contract is not too bothersome. 1 year and in an off-season in which the Sox just had huge money come off the books. I liked the Napoli and Drew moves, though Napoli is still up in the air. Victorino was a head-scratcher, and Dempster was a slight overpay.
December 26th, 2012 at 1:33 pm
Happy birthday, Chuck
December 26th, 2012 at 1:44 pm
Hanrahan to the Sox for Sands, Stolmy Pimetal, Ivan DeJesus and Melancon, I like this deal.
December 26th, 2012 at 1:55 pm
You gave up three major league players and a minor league prospect for a relief pitcher?
And what about Andrew Bailey?
Cherington got raped.
What a dumbass.
December 26th, 2012 at 1:56 pm
Thanks..Bob.
December 26th, 2012 at 1:56 pm
Napoli’s a defensive liability, but he’s a monster at the plate. He’ll pay off without a doubt. Happy Birthday, Chuck.
December 26th, 2012 at 1:59 pm
Napoli failed his physical..I’m not even sure why the Sox are still talking to him.
Move on, already.
December 26th, 2012 at 2:00 pm
Thanks Cam
December 26th, 2012 at 2:08 pm
The fact Sands was included tells me Napoli will be a Sox.
December 26th, 2012 at 2:36 pm
With or without Napoli, Sands’ chances of making the team are roughly the same as yours.
December 26th, 2012 at 3:17 pm
Without Napoli, the Sox have 2 1bman.
1. Ortiz
2. Mario Gomez
December 27th, 2012 at 4:59 am
Birthday well merry right after X-Mas B-Day old man!
December 27th, 2012 at 2:41 pm
With regards to above, the Swisher deal confused me too. The Indians don’t exactly have a deep farm system, and the talent that has been coming up has been fairly underwhelming, with the exception of Kipnis. Doubt they can compete.
Maybe they’re just looking to put fannies in seats with a big names.
December 27th, 2012 at 2:52 pm
Swisher is from Ohio.
December 27th, 2012 at 3:40 pm
So, John…a little wager on the Navy/Arizona State game?
December 27th, 2012 at 3:47 pm
Haha, what’s the line on the game?
December 27th, 2012 at 4:27 pm
Arizona State giving 13 1/2
December 27th, 2012 at 7:13 pm
Navy football, that’s always an easy bet. Go Sun Devils.
…Could be worse. You could be Army.
December 28th, 2012 at 10:56 am
Anibal Sanchez isn’t worth that money, unless he finds some streak of brilliance in the next five years.
The Tigers probably gave him that money because they think Comerica will help him, because they like his increasing K/BB ratio, and because he’s a solid back-end guy and the Tigers want to do everything possible to win at least 1 title before the city of Detroit collapses into…well it’s already the Mississippi of the north…so nevermind.
The good news (LOL) is that Sanchez was…51st in ERA last year…just behind Jason Vargas…who had a 2.7 WAR to Sanchez’s 1.2…you know…if you’re into that sort of stat
December 28th, 2012 at 11:00 am
I’m not reading 50 comments to see if it was reported…Hideki Matsui retired.
And Carlton Fisk pleaded guilty to DUI. No need to worry about his HOF membership. Alcohol isn’t performance enhancing…except when it comes to white people dancing.
December 28th, 2012 at 2:59 pm
Looking through an MSN story about famous sports people who died in 2012 and came across Teofilo Stevenson.
“The most famous person in Cuba not named Fidel Castro”
December 28th, 2012 at 4:31 pm
“The good news (LOL) is that Sanchez was…51st in ERA last year…just behind Jason Vargas…who had a 2.7 WAR to Sanchez’s 1.2…you know…if you’re into that sort of stat”
1.2 was just what Sanchez had with Detroit (12 starts). Overall he was at 2.6.
December 28th, 2012 at 7:50 pm
My mistake, John.
December 28th, 2012 at 8:40 pm
Holy shit.
Buster Olney’s HOF ballot.
Bagwell, Biggio, Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Morris, Murphy, Palmeiro, Piazza, Sosa.
I’m speechless, and that’s DESPITE knowing who submitted it.
Mothereffer.
December 28th, 2012 at 11:24 pm
If there was a Razzie award for writers the way there is for Actors…Buster Olney would be a finalist for shittiest writer every year. But then so would Rob Neyer.
December 29th, 2012 at 3:36 pm
Ugueth Urbina hopes to pitch again. His son is a prospect in the Mets system
December 29th, 2012 at 5:14 pm
I thought Urbina went to prison for trying to burn his house workers alive.
December 30th, 2012 at 10:30 am
He did..six years ago.
He’s a convicted felon, I don’t think he can get a US work visa.
Suck it, Ugie.
December 30th, 2012 at 2:24 pm
Happy New Year guys!!!!!! And congrats to Michigan State on their thrilling victory.
December 30th, 2012 at 4:43 pm
So John, how ’bout them Midshipmen?
December 30th, 2012 at 7:56 pm
Another few weeks until spring training.
Can’t get here soon enough.
Probably no more big deals, which means this is, without question, the worst offseason in baseball history.
Bad trades. Bad contracts. Bad sports writing. Bad HOF voting.
December 30th, 2012 at 8:06 pm
I agree with that 100%