Veteran’s Committee Finalists for 2012

by JohnBowen

As of 2010, revisions were made to the Veteran’s Committee voting process. There are now three categories of players to be selected:

Pre-Integration (3 billion BC – 1946 A.D.)

Golden Era (1947-1972)

Expansion (1973-now)

Each year, one of these era’s possible candidates are examined, such that each era is examined once every three years.

A committee of 16 people (composed of Hall of Famers, executives, historians, and media members)  convenes at the winter meetings to vote on each candidate from that year’s class. 12 of 16 votes are required for enshrinement.

Last year focused on the expansion era; this year, baseball’s Golden era will be looked at. The candidates for this year are:

Buzzie Bavasi (Executive): Bavasi is mainly known for his work as General Manager of the Brooklyn and Los Angeles Dodgers in the 50’s and 60’s. His teams won four championships and eight pennants during his time as a GM. He went on to be the General Manager for the expansion Padres for four years.

My vote: Yes

Ken Boyer (3B) (1955-1969): An elite third baseman for the Cardinals during baseball’s Golden Era, Boyer hit .300 or better five times and won the 1964 MVP, hitting .295/.365/.489 with a league-best 119 RBI.

My Vote: Very borderline; I’ll say yes.

Charlie Finley (Executive): The colorful owner of the Athletics, Charlie Finley moved the team from Kansas City to Oakland and presided over a dynasty of three straight World Championships from 1972-1974. Known for gimmicks, weird uniforms, bonuses for mustaches, and random catchy nicknames, Finley was universally loved by his players. Just kidding, they hated him.

My Vote: Absolutely Not

Gil Hodges (1B) (1943, 1947-1963): The first baseman for the Brooklyn Dodgers during their hey-day, Gil Hodges amassed 370 home runs in 2000 career games, topping 100 RBI every year from 1949 to 1955. He later went on to manage the New York Mets, leading them to a World Series victory as their skipper in 1969 after 7 straight losing seasons.

My Vote: No

Jim Kaat (SP) (1959-1983) Jim Kaat was a big league pitcher for parts of 25 seasons, which is an accomplishment in and of itself. He pitched mainly for the Minnesota Twins, enjoying his best season in 1966 (25-13, 304.2 IP, 2.75 ERA, 1.070 WHIP) and later won 20 games in back-to-back seasons with the White Sox. He also won the Gold Glove an incredible 16 times in a row from 1962 to 1977. He came just short of the 300 win plateau at 283, but currently ranks 25th all-time in innings pitched and 34th all-time in strikeouts.

My Vote: No

Minnie Minoso (OF), (1949, 1951-1964, 1976 (!), 1980(!!) ): He made some token publicity appearances for the White Sox in his 50’s, even notching a single as a 50-year old in 1976. But Minoso’s main contributions came a couple decades earlier, primarily with the White Sox. He drove in 100 runs four times, thrice led the league in stolen bases and triples, and finished fourth in the MVP voting four times, including his rookie season of 1951.

My vote: Close, but thumbs down for me.

Tony Oliva (OF) (1962-1976): Tony Oliva burst onto the scene in 1964, winning a batting title in his rookie season and leading the league in runs scored, hits, and doubles. He repeated that batting title the very next year for the AL Champion Twins, and later won the 1971 batting and slugging titles. The outfielder led the league in hits 5 times, doubles four times, and twice finished second in the MVP voting.

My Vote: Was well on his way; his 1964-1971 is definitely a stretch worthy of a hall of famer. But he really fell off, so I’m voting no.

Allie Reynolds (SP) (1942-1954): Allie Reynolds pitched for the Indians and Yankees for thireen seasons. He enjoyed his best year in 1952, going 20-8 with a league-best 2.06 ERA and 160 strikeouts, and finished second to Philadelphia’s Bobby Shantz in the MVP voting (one year after finished third). He was an all-star in five of his final six seasons.

My Vote: No.

Ron Santo (3B) (1960-1974): Among the greatest third basemen of all-time (at a horribly underrepresented position for the Hall of Fame), Ron Santo manned the hot corner for the Cubs for 14 seasons, later becoming their voice on the radio. Despite playing in the worst era for hitter’s since the 1910’s, Santo hit 25 or more home runs eight straight years and 30 or more in four straight seasons. He also flashed some serious leather, racking up five consecutive gold gloves.

My Vote: Yes. It’s just a shame he died before he could deliver what would have been a memorable speech.

Luis Tiant (SP) (1964-1982): Sporting one of the most unique pitching motions of all-time, El Tiante won 229 games in 19 big league seasons and won two ERA titles, including the title in 1968, the “Year of the Pitcher.” Tiant took over 30% of the vote in his first year on the ballot, but never attained more than 18 in any year after that.

My Vote: Yes, for the wind-up alone.

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77 Responses to “Veteran’s Committee Finalists for 2012”

  1. Cameron Says:

    At best the VC usually inducts, what, 3 guys a year?

    Probably Buvasi, Santo, and Tiant.

  2. JohnBowen Says:

    Closer to 1, Cameron.

    Last couple years were Whitey Herzog and Joe Gordon.

    It’s not the exclusivity I mind, it’s the randomness with which people are chosen for exclusivity.

  3. Cameron Says:

    That’s why I said at best John. I never remember them inducting more than three in the recent incarnations.

  4. Cameron Says:

    *snickers* You know, I love our government sometimes.

    Juggalos (fans of the rap group the Insane Clown Posse) are classified by the FBI as a gang, among such threats as the Triad, Yakuza, MS-13, Bloods, Crips, and Latin Kings.

    …Really, Juggalos? You’re calling Juggalos a threat to national security?

  5. brautigan Says:

    Juggalos are only a threat to themselves.

    They like to slit their own wrists.

  6. brautigan Says:

    Who knows how old Minnie Minoso really is/was when he played.

    Do you realize how many times American League rednecks threw at Minnie Minoso? When blacks first started playing in the major leagues, they consistently were leading the league in hit by pitches. Minoso was the leader many times. I’d give him the vote for that alone……..

  7. JohnBowen Says:

    Doesn’t surprise me…the American League was so much slower to integrate than the NL so I’ll bet racism was even more prevalent.

  8. Cameron Says:

    Really braut? Most juggalos I’ve seen are just stupid drunks who like bad rap and shitty wrestling.

    Also, Minnie Minoso played at least one game per decade for the past fifty years.

  9. brautigan Says:

    Yes Cameron. Portland has their fair share of Juggalos. We call them “gnats”.

  10. Jim Says:

    Tony Oliva’s career was diminished by injuries later in his career. Its tempting to account for that and vote him in, but that is a very slippery slope.

  11. Cameron Says:

    Really? Portland doesn’t seem nearly white-trashy enough to attract them.

    Then again, my only expereince of Oregon are relatives in Eugene and that place is so picturesque that it kinda scares me, like I think I’m gonna find myself in the middle of the Stepford Wives or something.

  12. brautigan Says:

    Oh, southeast Portland is called felony flats for a reason. It is a ghetto without apartments. Enough white trash meth users for the entire country. Actually, the Juggalos are a step up from them.

  13. Cameron Says:

    True, they have the effort to put the facepaint on.

  14. brautigan Says:

    There is no whiter city in America than Portland except for no fun Salt Lake City.

    Of course, our collective IQ can be found within the range of Bingo “G”.

  15. Cameron Says:

    Oh I knew Portland was white as hell, I just thought it was the kind of trendy hipster white people that are crowding the northwest.

  16. Len Says:

    @7 John Bowen,

    I think it really depended on the city. The Twins were integrated in the 60’s with Olivia, Mudcat Grant, Camilo Pasqual, Cesar Tovar and Zoiles Versailles. Cleveland was integrated as well with Vic Power, Leon Wagner, Chuck Hinton, Juan Pizarro, Luis Tiant, Mudcat Grant, and Jose Cardinal.

    The Phillies had a really tough time with integration as evidenced by what Ritchie Allen went through, I seem to remember Cincinnati having trouble with integration as well. St. Louis had problems with integration in the 40’s-50’s, early 60’s.

  17. Lefty33 Says:

    @ 14 – Portland is actually less white than most of Oregon in general.

    Oregon as a whole is something like 85-86% white and Portland is in the mid to low 70’s due to the larger Asian population.

    @ 15 – The Pearl District is nice but overrated.

  18. brautigan Says:

    Oregon is the patchouli capital. I am so ingrained to patchouli that I can no longer recognize it, even in the midst of a Further concert.

    The Pearl is over rated. I never go there, although I am frequently nearby at Powell’s bookstore and Everyday Music (they have a fantastic collection of vinyl records).

    And of course, Portland has no baseball. Which should be referred to the Multnomah County district attorney’s office because it’s a crime.

  19. Cameron Says:

    Not even minor league ball? What about the Sea Dogs?

  20. Cameron Says:

    Wait… Wrong Portland.

    Can you forgive me? I forgot Maine existed until I looked it up.

  21. brautigan Says:

    I wish we had the Sea Dogs. Sometimes, I think AA ball is a bit more compelling than AAA.

  22. JohnBowen Says:

    “I seem to remember Cincinnati having trouble with integration as well.”

    Frank Robinson springs to mind. But I’m not sure of anyone else in that time frame.

    “St. Louis had problems with integration in the 40’s-50’s, early 60’s.”

    Or, “when Stan Musial played.” Lots of bad stories about him.

    My understanding is that, on the whole, the NL integrated much more rapidly than the AL (where you’ve basically got Minnesota, Cleveland, and Chicago). The Negro League museum has a small feature about this, as I recall towards the end. It’s a big part of the reason why NL attendance was so much better for a while.

  23. Cameron Says:

    AA ball is usually where the hotter prospects are. AAA is a mix of super prospects and guys who are there in case anyone important gets hurt.

  24. Cameron Says:

    “My understanding is that, on the whole, the NL integrated much more rapidly than the AL (where you’ve basically got Minnesota, Cleveland, and Chicago). The Negro League museum has a small feature about this, as I recall towards the end. It’s a big part of the reason why NL attendance was so much better for a while.”

    You know something? I live in KC and I’ve never actually been to the Negro League Museum. Just never found the time.

  25. JohnBowen Says:

    Oh, I’ve been there at least a couple times. Fantastic place.

  26. Cameron Says:

    I think a major thing holding me back is I wanna hit the jazz museum on the same day, and I could be in both places all day.

    …What? I can like jazz.

  27. Len Says:

    @22 John,

    Yeah, I would say on average the NL was a little faster to integrate but there were pockets, Philadelphia, St. Louis, and Cincinatti that took awhile to integrate. The A.L. was slower to integrate on average but there were pockets like the Twins, Indians and Chi Sox that were very integrated. Even a team like the Pirates didn’t really fully integrate until the mid to early 60’s.

    The Reds didn’t really start to integrate until the late 50’s-early 60’s with Frank Robinson, Vada Pinson, Leo Cardenas, and Elio Chacon.

    The Cardinals didn’t really start to integrate until the late 50’s-early 60’s with Curt Flood, Bill White and Bob Gibson.

    The Phillies had a few black or latino players in the late 50’s-early 60’s but it wasn’t like any of them were stars, guys like, Chico Fernandez, Tony Taylor, Pancho Herrera, Tony Gonzalez, Cookie Rojas, and Ruben Amaro. It wasn’t until Dick Allen came around in 1964 that the Phillies had a black star.

  28. Chuck Says:

    Racism didn’t have anything to do with skin color.

    Frank Robinson tells a story about his rookie year with Cincinnati and the Reds were on the barnstorming trip from Florida to Cincinnati to start the season from Spring Training.

    They walked into some diner in some god-forsaken southern town and the owner of the place came out with a shotgun and tried to chase the “darkies” out. Vada Pinson and Elio Chacon started talking Spanish, at which time the owner let them in because they weren’t “black”.

    Robinson followed and the owner walked over and tried to stop him, with Pinson running over and saying he was Cuban like the rest of them but had just “landed off the boat” and the only English he knew was “yes”, “no” and “cheeseburger.”

    The owner let him stay.

    Those ignorant KKK assholes were too fucking stupid to know the difference.

  29. Lefty33 Says:

    “Everyday Music (they have a fantastic collection of vinyl records).”

    @ 18 – Everyday and Powell’s are two things I miss about living in the area.

    I lived in Hillsboro from ‘98-’01 and those are two amazing places that I have yet to see duplicated anywhere let alone in the same city.

    Thanks for that awesome trip down memory lane!

  30. Cameron Says:


    …That doesn’t BEGIN to make sense. That’s the dumbest thing I’ve heard all day, and I just got done reading an article about a man who tried to get out of a bestiality charge by saying the donkey he was fuckin’ was actually a shapeshifting prostitute.

  31. Chuck Says:

    So says the guy who paid for his therapist’s beach house.

  32. Cameron Says:

    No, my parent’s insurance did that. I have no insurance and therefore need to be crazy unchecked.

  33. Hartvig Says:

    John @ 22

    ““St. Louis had problems with integration in the 40’s-50’s, early 60’s.”

    Or, “when Stan Musial played.” Lots of bad stories about him.”

    ??? I have read that in ‘46 the Cardinals were threatening not to take the field against the Dodgers (and Jackie Robinson) but that Harry Walker was the primary instigator behind that and it fizzled out when Happy Chandler, the commissioner of MLB, promised to throw every player that took part out of the league. I have also read in a couple of places that Musial was someone that Curt Flood looked up to and admired. I’m not claiming that Musial didn’t have a racist bone in his body but it was a different world then and (I think anyways) we have to make some allowances for that. He may have been on the wrong side of the fence when baseball was integrated but so were most of the players and the rest of the country for that matter. But it’s not like he was a Grand Dragon in the KKK or anything.

  34. Chuck Says:

    No reason it shouldn’t make sense, unless it’s the Meds.

  35. brautigan Says:

    As a life long Cardinal fan, this is the first time I have ever heard anything about Stan Musial being prejudicial. How weird is that?

  36. brautigan Says:

    Minnesota did not have a team until 1961 when the Washington Senators relocated to the Twin Cities.

  37. JohnBowen Says:

    Brautigan, it’s more rumors than anything else, mainly related to policies at a restaurant he owned in St. Louis than anything he did as a player.

  38. brautigan Says:

    JB, thanks for the clarification. One thing I have learned over the years is that when someone uses their name for a business (such as “Mickey Mantle’s” in New York), that person rarely has any interaction with that business, including everyday operations. I’ll give Musial a pass on that one.

    I have always found it quite interesting regarding racism in baseball. A lot of the players from the 50’s still have vivid memories of spring training in Florida, or playing minor league ball in the south. It was not a pretty picture.

  39. Bob Says:

    Hartvig: Welcome back.

  40. Bob Says:

    So Wakefield, Mike Cameron, Graig Counsell and Edgar Renteria all intend to play in 2012. Wonder how many make big league rosters come April 2nd.

  41. Cameron Says:

    Wake definitely will, Cameron can cut it as a backup pretty easily, same with Renteria.

    Only one I have serious doubts about is Counsell.

  42. Lefty33 Says:

    Probably Renteria in a platoon role but I can’t imagine Cameron with all of his injuries and Wakefield with back to back plus five ERA seasons getting a job unless they are going to do a Henderson and play in the Atlantic League.

    But then again, Moyer is about to start shopping himself to teams for ‘12 and he is conficent that he’ll get a nibble so anything is possible.

    Maybe I’ll host one if they play close by for the Lancaster Branstormers.

  43. Cameron Says:

    Cameron’s gonna get a job as a backup. He’s got his injuries, but the guy’s about as good a defensive sub as money can buy at this point. Might see him on a team like Texas that needs defensive subs.

  44. Bob Says:

    The Mariners will sign Moyer. Whether he makes their April roster is debateable.
    And that would be mighty thoughtful and awesome of you to host one of those guys. Ease their finacial burden.

  45. Lefty33 Says:

    “The Mariners will sign Moyer.”

    I’ll be interested to see if Philly or someone on the East Coast gives him a look as he still lives in PA and that was one of the reasons he really pushed to get traded to Philly in the first place.

    “And that would be mighty thoughtful and awesome of you to host one of those guys. Ease their finacial burden.”


  46. Cameron Says:

    If hometown discounts are big for him, I’m thinkin’ he’s a Pirate before he’s a Philly.

  47. JohnBowen Says:

    Jamie Moyer’s a veteran and a “crafty lefty.”

    Ned Coletti will ink him to a 6-year, 123 million dollar deal.

  48. Cameron Says:

    Ned Coletti’s an ownership change away from un3employment.

  49. Lefty33 Says:

    I hate that term “crafty”.

    You never hear that to descibe an old RHP.

    Moyer could be 50 and crafty while Wakefield could be 46 and just suck while putting up the same ERA.

  50. Raul Says:

    1. Jim Kaat should be elected simply because…well…I just like the guy.
    2. If you don’t like Luis Tiant, you might be a Nazi. Everyone loves Luis. Maybe not a HOFer, but he was talented and had a hell of a power arm before his injury.
    3. Ron Santo. Man, I just don’t know anymore.

  51. Lefty33 Says:

    @ 46 – I also mentioned the Phillies because supposedly Moyer has a handshake agreement to become a pitching coach in their system if he wants if he ever retires.

  52. brautigan Says:

    “Crafty” is what you describe a pitcher who has a strikeout rate below one every four innings.

  53. Raul Says:

    If you could take the pitching wisdom of a 40 year old and put it into the arm of a 20 year old you would have entire teams with 1.50 ERAs.

  54. Lefty33 Says:

    @ 52- Crafty is what you a call a pitcher who’s fastball is so soft that the TV broadcast stops showing gun readings for that inning.

  55. Cameron Says:

    Slowest fastball I’ve ever seen was when Joe Inglett pitched an inning for the Brewers. It was read as a knuckleball on the radar gun.

  56. Raul Says:

    Crafty is a stupid term used to describe anyone who isn’t throwing 95mph.

    Frankly, it’s used as a bit of an insult to the pitching institution. As if because you can’t throw 95mph, you are “crafty” and need to “resort” to fooling hitters by throwing different speeds at different locations —- you know…”PITCHING”.

  57. Cameron Says:

    Oh, like how I pitch.

    I find crafty insulting because I’m a righty but I’m crafty.

  58. Lefty33 Says:

    I remember Scott Sanderson making a start for the Yankees around ‘92 and while broadcasting the game on WPIX Seaver points out to Mercer that every time Sanderson threw his big overhand eephus-like curveball it wasn’t registering on the scoreboard’s radar gun.

    About an inning later Mercer says that after asking some questions between innings he found out that Sanderson’s curve wasn’t being thrown hard enough for the gun to pick it up so in deference to him they stopped talking about it.

    Now that’s crafty.

  59. Chuck Says:

    Crafty is what you call a 49 year old pitcher getting a new contract.

  60. Lefty33 Says:

    @ 58 –

    I forgot that for you soft tossing RHP the word is “gritty”.

    LHP is “crafty”

    RHP is “gritty”

  61. Lefty33 Says:

    “Crafty is what you call a 49 year old pitcher getting a new contract.”

    And the word for that GM who signs him should be unemployed.

  62. JohnBowen Says:

    “Slowest fastball I’ve ever seen was when Joe Inglett pitched an inning for the Brewers. It was read as a knuckleball on the radar gun.”

    I was at that game.


  63. Raul Says:

    Didn’t Omar Minaya sign a 62 year old Julio Franco to a multi-year contract?

  64. Bob Says:

    No. Franco was 63.

  65. Cameron Says:

    So, I just had some AWESOME news coming in today. My buddies are willing to give me a couple hundred bucks to cover the property tax on my car as thanks for all the stuff I’ve been doing for them as my Christmas present. I get to keep my car!

    It’s nice knowing that just being a good friend pays off sometimes.

  66. Raul Says:

    Nice @ Cam.

  67. Cameron Says:

    Also, might not have to get it fixed that much. Need body work and a new left strut, but they have a buddy who’s qualified to inspect vehicles that’s uh… Got low standards, let’s say.

    How much does it cost to get a headlight replaced?

  68. Bob Says:

    Great news, Cameron.

  69. Cameron Says:

    Uh… Damn. The A’s are willing to trade players because of the stadium uncertainty issue and only one guy is untouchable. Jemile Weeks.

    So anyone needing a good starter can call on Gonzalez, Cahill, and Anderson, Braden can eat some innings, and who doesn’t need a catcher? Kurt Suzuki ain’t great with the bat, but he can handle the backstop better than most.

    Not saying Oakland’s gonna get gutted, but the league better be prepared to make them eat their words.

  70. JAD Says:

    Let them in; let them all in.

  71. Chuck Says:

    OK, new guy, I’ll bite.


  72. Chuck Says:

    That’s good news, Cam

  73. JAD Says:

    More inductees – bigger party. (Not so “new” as you think.)

  74. Hossrex Says:

    Psh… just like the Hall of Fame… excluding players from the 11 billion years prior to the formation of the Earth.

    This is just like the 40’s when we didn’t let the darkies play.

  75. Chuck Says:

    My two cents.

    Bavasi: It’s hard to quantify the accomplishments of a General Manager, and while his record is impressive, I can’t get past the fact the Dodgers moved to LA on his watch.


    Boyer: Solid career, but his maximum 25.5% while on the BBWAA ballot is telling.


    Finley: LOL

    Hodges: Really? How the hell is Hodges on the ballot but not Dick Allen? What a joke.

    Kaat: I used to think he was a slam dunk, but age and experience has told me otherwise. I’d vote for him for sentimental reasons, but, no.

    Minoso: See comment on Hodges, minus the Dick Allen part.

    Oliva: Healthy, he’s one of the greatest hitters of all time, easily 400 homers and 3000 hits, but, alas, health keeps you out more than it gets you in.


    Reynolds: The fact he’s a Yankee is irrelevant. He’s not a Hall of Famer.

    Santo: Not even the best third baseman on the ballot.

    Tiant: No.

    So, I vote no one.


  76. JohnBowen Says:

    @75, no one’s surprised.

    “Really? How the hell is Hodges on the ballot but not Dick Allen? What a joke.”

    Agreed, that’s nonsense.

    “Solid career, but his maximum 25.5% while on the BBWAA ballot is telling.”

    I don’t view the BBWAA’s opinion as “telling.”

  77. Hossrex Says:

    Chuck: “Bavasi: It’s hard to quantify the accomplishments of a General Manager, and while his record is impressive, I can’t get past the fact the Dodgers moved to LA on his watch.”

    Emotional: “I disagree. Not only wouldn’t I hold it against a man for being on watch when The Dodgers left New York for LA… I would applaud him for doing whatever miniscule responsibilities would have been incumbent upon the General Manager during the prospective process in a team moving… he not only took his franchise out from under the shadow of the metaphorical giant (and ironically into the shadow of the literal Giants), but brought Major League Baseball (and thus… I don’t think I’m stretching here… HAPPINESS) to EVERY AMERICAN CITIZEN LIVING WEST OF THE MOTHER FUCKING MISSISSIPPI FUCKING RIVER.

    Rational: “I’m the General Manager of a baseball team. I think I’m going to help my team maximize it’s potential. I very specifically share the spotlight with not only the most storied franchise in all of American sports… but also another scrub ass team full of losers. La de da doo dee doo. Oh, whats this? There are no Major League Baseball teams for more than half of the physical country? Hmmm… that’s strange. Oh well. Doop de doo da dee. Hmmmm… maybe… maybe I could take my team away from the ABSOLUTE WORST FUCKING FINANCIAL LOCATION THEY COULD POSSIBLY BE IN… and maybe (maybe?) find a SLIGHTLY better location for my business… they do say after all that in business what matters is ‘location location location’. So… hmmmm… what might be a better location? Philadelphia? No… I think they already have a team. Boston? Nah… can’t play on Sunday’s. Hey… way-da-minnit… maybe… maybe we could try moving to… *ANY FUCKING WHERE* except east of the Mississippi? That’s it! We’ll be the “ANY-FUCKING-WHERE-EXCEPT-FOR-THE-33%-OF-THE-UNITED-FUCKING-STATES-WHERE-EVERY-FUCKING-OTHER-FUCKING-TEAM-IS… Dodgers”.”


    Whether emotional or rational… you at least shouldn’t hold it against the dude that he took (or at least didn’t use an assault rifle to prevent) the Dodgers from going to… literally anywhere except where the Yankees play.

    Though to be fair… I’m a Dodgers fan who couldn’t have told you anything about Bavasi other than he had something to do with the Dodgers, and his name was Buzzy (I even would have spelled it wrong, apparently).

    Not sure a dude I know next to nothing about belongs in the Hall of Fame. I would say that you should be damn near a household name, even to casual fans, before you get through the doors of Cooperstown cheaper than I do… but ESPECIALLY what does it say when a fan of YOUR team, who can name the opening day starting rotation of the team from each year back at least the last 20 years, couldn’t even spell your name right?

    Hodges is my sentimental favorite (from WAY back in little league, thanks to “Homerun Derby”)… but fuckballs… if I were being objective, the guy don’t even deserve to be in the FOOTBALL Hall of Fame… and they let in like 7 metric tons worth of athlete every year.

    :p I still like Rock though.

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