Thomas Wayne is BACK…you have been warned…lol

by ThomasWayne

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146 Responses to “Thomas Wayne is BACK…you have been warned…lol”

  1. ThomasWayne Says:

    And once again I am having problems getting anything to post from the dashboard.

    Anyway, my little announcement (threat?) was this….I have overlooked my baseball musings long enough…its time to get back on track.

    My New Years resolution – one new article a week starting the first week of 2013.

    Hopefully by then we can have this dashboard thing figured out. Perhaps Chuck or John Bowen could email me a link to their dashboard log in – maybe I’m trying to write on something out dated. Or alert the webmaster and have them send me a new link or tell me whats wrong. It simply won’t transfer what I write in the body of the page to the actual site.

    Thanks bunches and remember – stay patient. Pitchers and catchers report in three months.

  2. Bob Says:

    What issue was on your mind? And welcome back.

  3. Bob Says:

    So I went over to Fangraphs and read Dave Cameron’s post that Peter Bourjous is basically a clone of Cameron Maybin, and just read the first 5 comments. Good stuff.

  4. Chuck Says:

    Glad to see you back on the horse Thomas.

    Until you get your password issues straightened out, feel free to email any articles to me at and I will post them for you.

  5. JohnBowen Says:

    Great to see you Thomas! Email Chuck or me ( and we’ll post the article no problem. I’ll even do it if you try to get Michael Young another MVP!

    As for the dashboard itself, I have no idea how to straighten that out. Adam set it up and then vanished.

    One possible suggestion: have you tried clicking on the “copy and paste from Word” icon?

  6. Raul Says:

    Wasn’t there a logon page on this site?
    Maybe it was years ago. I could have sworn i registered for this crap

  7. ThomasWayne Says:

    Thanks guys. I guess I will be emailing future posts….the dashboard is haunted? Everytime I place anything in their it simply disappears when I post it – except for the title of the article.

    Anyway…good to be back guys. Have a great holiday.

    Thomas Wayne
    Head of Promotions – Michael Young for MVP Project

  8. ThomasWayne Says:

    Man…I cant type for crap…I wrote my dashboard is haunted as a question…lol.

    There is no question…MY DASHBOARD IS HAUNTED…lol

  9. Cameron Says:

    Wow, me and Thomas come back in the same week. Christmas came two weeks early for you fuckers.

  10. Raul Says:

    As long as you fuckers were gone from the site, we should get real fucking gifts as part of your dues.

    A bottle of Crown Royal Reserve would be a good start.

  11. Chuck Says:


    Patrick had the same issue a while back and eventually found out it was related to his new internet provider’s security settings.

    It’s like your cable company not carrying a certain channel, and you wake up one day and it’s there. I don’t remember if he called and had them do something or if he sprinkled pixie dust on his laptop, but he can now post.

    Not sure if that’s something you’ve done as late, but it’s a thought.

  12. Chuck Says:

    PS..I have my spam settings set-up to delete everything sabermetric related..FYI.


  13. ThomasWayne Says:

    Good call Chuck, Good call.

  14. ThomasWayne Says:

    I have actually been toying with a couple of ideas for Sabermetric type stats…sad but true…

    The first was Bilateral Unifying League Leader Statistical Hierarchy of Individual Traits…

    The second is Personal Hitter Underlying Kinetic Efficiency Dictom.

    So…when they get big…you can tell everybody that I created some new Sabermetrics…

    B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T and P.H.U.K.E.D…

    Sounds about right….lol

  15. Cameron Says:

    I actually was experimenting with a formula for slugging percentage on balls in play once, but I gave up because I never got it right.

  16. Mike Felber Says:

    Thomas Wayne back = Great. Gratuitous saber-hate…Not so much.

  17. Chuck Says:

    Sucks to be you Mike.

  18. Chuck Says:

    If you really want to hit on something Cameron, you should figure out slugging average on balls not in play.

    Like homers and foul balls.


  19. Bob Says:

    When my balls are in play, I bat 1000. My wife? Fuck you all for asking.

  20. Chuck Says:

    No one asked, Bob. Or cares.

  21. Raul Says:

    Lol Bob.

    So Dickey to the Blue Jays is in the works. Sounds like the Mets want D’Arnaud.

  22. JohnBowen Says:

    This is pretty funny:,30662/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=standard-post%3Aheadline%3Adefault

  23. Raul Says:

    LOL @ that Onion post

  24. Bob Says:

    The Phillies signed Mike Adams and John Lannan.

  25. Mike Felber Says:

    Great Chuck, you show us who is boss with your crudely devastating put downs!

    Not. I do not mind having a 2nd knee jerk saber-hater around.

  26. Mike Felber Says:

    I don’t know what is wrong with you cynics who think the NBA is not exciting now!,30401

  27. Chuck Says:

    Everyone here hates sabermetrics and there’s no knee-jerk to it, we’re way past that by now.

    And when John goes on his six month boat ride, and with the impending demise of HHS, you’ll have to find another fire lamp post to piss on.

  28. Cameron Says:

    I don’t hate it. More like I value it more as opinion and meta-analysis than science.

  29. Raul Says:

    It’s the idea that non-sabermatricians don’t know that getting on base is helpful. That’s what irritates me.

    Like somehow Bill James came along and everything people have known about the game is meaningless.
    That’s what bothers me.

  30. Bob Says:

    The Jays have 72 hours to work out an extension with Dickey. If they cannot, then he stays a Met.

  31. Cameron Says:

    Sabermetrics was around before Bill James, just the Abstract in… 85 I think, and the Win Shares really got the ball rolling. Sorta like how you blame Tony La Russa for ruining pitching. He had a good idea, just Zappa’s Law* came in and perverted it into something bad. Don’t blame the originator, blame the bandwagon for fucking it up.

    * “There are only two universals. Hydrogen and human stupidity”

  32. Bob Says:

    I shit you not. Nick Cafordo’s HOF ballot

    1. Clemens
    2. Bonds
    3. Sosa
    4. Piazza
    5. Bagwell
    6. Biggio
    7. Trammell
    8. Raines
    9. Morris

  33. Raul Says:


  34. Chuck Says:

    Take it seriously or don’t vote.

  35. Mike Felber Says:

    You are alomost entirelt wrong Chuck. The only ones here who hate SM are you & (Unless he qualifies this statement) Thomas Wayne. As Raul confirmed above, he resents a certain attitude of many Sm folks, not finding it all wrong & redundant. Bob, Len, Cameron & anyone else you care to mention-not saber haters.

    As I said above, it remains in flux if HHS will be eve on hiatus soon. It may be until the early spring, or if Andy takes up one of the many good ideas that he acknowledges would work, it will not be on break. He just has some reluctance to ask for any money now, yet very many in the loyal community, like me, say we will but access/mugs, etc.

    The dominance/territorial implications of “pissing on a lamppost represents your own inclinations, not mine. That is OK, you assume this motivation, ascribe it to me because that is what you know.

  36. Mike Felber Says:

    Typos: almost “entirely” wrong, & we will “buy” access to HHS.

  37. Bob Says:

    The Twins signed Mike Pelfrey.

  38. Chuck Says:

    I enjoy reading HHS, although for probably different reasons than most.

    The reasons it’s going south is lack of interest. It’s not a slap, it’s a fact.

    There’s not a large enough audience to support the advertising investors necessary to keep the site operational.

    It’d be like opening a sushi restaurant in Harlem or a Ben & Jerry’s in the Artic Circle.

    Location, location, location.

    You can only buy so many coffee cups or bumper stickers. Even the most successful restaurant or retail store can’t survive just on the “regular” crowd.

  39. Raul Says:

    Matt Bush

    From #1 pick to prison. Three years.

  40. Mike Felber Says:

    The principle is correct Chuck. Though they have a lot of regulars like me willing to pay, even without expanding the pool-which they could through promotion-it clearly could easily be self supporting. Andy is hesitating to ask this season though. They discussed the expenses openly, it would not take much money to stay online. Andy would be fine with break even.

    A sushi restaurant could work in Harlem! ironically I was supposed to go there tonight, called off for now…Harlem has become more diverse in some sections, & Sugar Hill up there has a lot of money. The huge Fairway supermarket at the water has flourished for years.

  41. ThomasWayne Says:

    Just to clarify…I do not HATE much of anything, let alone sabermetrics. However, I do have a problem with the notion and usage of sabermetrics and sabermetricians themselves.

    Let me give you a few examples….

    First and foremost is the notion that new stats tell you more than old stats…its ludicris. WAR and the likes don’t tell you anymore about how good a player truly is than batting average or slugging or any other individual stat. Using Mike Trout as an example I can tell you I never once needed WAR to tell me that this kid had a MONSTER year….on a personal level I was touting him as an MVP candidate about a month before anyone else because I was following the Angels (thanks to Pujols leaving my boys in St. Louis) very closely. I also did not need Cabrera winning the TRIPLE CROWN to tell me he had a monster year.
    This is my main problem with Sabr stuff…it simply does not tell anyone who knows anything about the game any more than they already did.
    Case in point I can name 20 players off the top of my head as the 20 greatest of all time. With or without WAR, career home runs, OBP , whatever, I can almost guarantee you that with the exception of maybe 2 or 3 players I will be naming the same names that are in the top twenty of just about anyone’s list by any statistical standard.
    My next problem with Sabr stuff is that it allows people who have never played the game at any level feel as if they are superios in baseball intelligence to those of us who have played on every level they possibly could. The closest I ever got to the majors was a tryout with the Braves in 1992. We had 500 people at the tryout and we got cut in bunches of 50. I made it to the last 50 who were cut and that was it as far as the bigs went. But I went home, put on my glove and spikes and played in every men’s league I could find and did so until my body said give it up big boy…youre 6′3” and weigh 265….give your knees a break now or pay for it later – I didn’t listen, I am now 40 years old and paying for it later…but I digress….my point is…I LOVE this fucking game…as most of us do…and I take serious umbridge with those who have never played…never held a bat….never had to cut off a ball to keep a runner from advancing another base…never had to swing at border line pitches to fall them off just to stay alive in hopes of getting a good pitch to hit…telling me that eveything I know is wrong or out dated simply because they have a overly complex algebra equation that makes them feel like they know something about baseball.

    Its really insulting.

    So, I don’t mind new stats. I don’t mind anyone who tries to make new advances statistically on any level.

    I just have a big problem with those who have never played tellin me that RBI don’t matter and that clutch hitting doesn’t exist. People who have played no that that is the dumbest statement ever made.

    Anyway..I hope that clear up my stance on Sabr stuff.


  42. ThomasWayne Says:

    And of course that should be superior not superios…and foul not fall. And that should be an overly complex equation…man…typos are a bitch. So much for being a writer…lol.

  43. Mike Felber Says:

    Thanks for sharing that information Thomas. I recall you as overwhelmingly big-hearted. I do not think you are a “hater” per se, but you have some dislike or sotto voice hate for SM. You state things you hate that advanced metric folks do, but

    1) Though there is some truth that some do this, it is not nearly so prevalent as the stereotypes perpetuated by those who are old school perpetuate.
    2) You show no proportionate inclination to resent the ignorance in some old school types & estimations.

    Some specifics. Many Sm people played at many different levels. Some betray a lack of practical understanding when they did not. But also many who played & may have been good or great, even coaches or a Joe Morgan/important commentator, show ignorance about basic truths. or bvelieve rank superstition.

    RBIs are amongst many good examples. They only “don’t matter” in terms of using the to well determine how good a guy is, even in slugging. That is all SM folks say, that line up, era, opportunities & parks make them a horrible tool to determine overall value. And OBP is more important than slg: SM is able to put a # (1.8: 1) on this proportion.

    Clutch hitting RARELY exists. Whether one plays or noty, if this is not measured scien-terrifically, all are prone to misperception & superstition in every realm of human endeavor & knowledge. Overwhelmingly sample size limitations lead to senseless idea(l0s about who is clutch.

    I do not see as much consistency as you claim in everyone’s top 20 list. Though granted there is much similarity. How good & why, Sm helps with. Without it most would way overvalue or underrate players who had incomplete games, played in certain contexts, put up certain raw #s…

    Sure, many like you could see Trout was going to be great. But how great he was or would likely to be, the understanding is enabled by SM.

    There is arrogance & stubbornness on all sides. FOlks tend to be tribal in all realms, & the braiaian demonstrably over-diagnoses patterns, especially when seen even as a psychological threat, so assign much more negative motives & actions to the “enemy”.

    if you do not mind me asking, why did you get to, or stay at, 265? Even Canseco was lighter in his ‘roid peak, & I do not recall you saying you ever got so muscular. To save your knees & play longer, why not have gotten down to no more than ~ 220?

  44. Chuck Says:

    “Many Sm people played at many different levels.”


    “or a Joe Morgan/important commentator, show ignorance about basic truths.”

    It’s the SM people who are most often wrong, per Thomas’ point.

    “But how great he was or would likely to be, the understanding is enabled by SM.”

    Because you lack the basic understanding necessary to recognize greatness without “help”.


  45. Bob Says:

    Stephen Drew is a Red Sox for one year. I like this.

  46. John Says:

    “Using Mike Trout as an example I can tell you I never once needed WAR to tell me that this kid had a MONSTER year….on a personal level I was touting him as an MVP candidate about a month before anyone else because I was following the Angels (thanks to Pujols leaving my boys in St. Louis) very closely. I also did not need Cabrera winning the TRIPLE CROWN to tell me he had a monster year.”

    I agree, but what about comparing them? That MVP race was about comparing two outstanding seasons from two completely different players.

    On a completely non-stats level, one was great at everything, the other was a monster at hitting for average and power…and very meh at everything else.

    You don’t want any perspective at all about the relative monstrosities of those two seasons?

  47. ThomasWayne Says:


    A quick response on my weight and knees…in all actuality…I am kind of a genetic freak…or I should say was….at 40 I’m just a freak with a lasagna gut and grey in my goatee.

    But when I was 20, 25, even up to maybe 30…I was one of those guys who rarely worked out but I carried a lot of muscle…if I had trimmed down all the extra fat back in the day I would have still weighed 235 or 240.

    My Dad and his brothers were all this way, minus the height. My Dad was a rock solid 210 pounds at 5′8” for most of his life. He had a brother, my uncle Wally who was 5′8” and 240….built kinda like Dan Uggla, or a better example would be someone like Craig Ironhead Heyward who played for the Saints back in the 90’s. Wally played college football for Fresno State back in the early 50’s.

    They never worked out, never lifted weights. Just naturally muscular from genetics. My Dad told me on several occassions that had Wally wanted to he could have played in the NFL as a linebacker in his time (this would have been the mid 1950’s), but there was little money in that back then and he wanted more financial stability so he went on to teach and eventually became a school principal for roughly 40 years.

    I’ve gotten sidetracked again…lol. Anyway…my knees were doomed to early creakiness simply because, genetically, I couldn’t avoid the extra weight even if I wasnt fat. I simple had to much muscle then. Now its all fat with a little muscle underneath…lol.

  48. ThomasWayne Says:

    I was going to write a little something here about being ‘CLUTCH’ but I will save it for my first article of the year…it may get to long for this forum. We can discuss it then.

  49. ThomasWayne Says:


    For a quick refresher you wrote (Talking about Trout and Cabrera):

    On a completely non-stats level, one was great at everything, the other was a monster at hitting for average and power…and very meh at everything else.

    You don’t want any perspective at all about the relative monstrosities of those two seasons?

    My response – first and foremost the sheer fact that there isn’t a set criteria for MVP voting (just like their isn’t a set criteria for HOF voting except for 10 years in the league) makes most arguments – old school or new – null and void.

    Did both deserve the MVP? Sure. You could argue that Beltre, Hamilton, Adam Jones, whoever was also deserving, but someone had to lose out, thats just the way it is. With nothing more than watching the individual player highlights and ones choice of statistical measure to go with a voter has to make an personal choice.

    The other thing to remember is stats don’t always show how good, or especially valuable a player is. I could argue that Yadier Molina is easily the most valuable player in either league everyday he steps on the field…but is he the best? Hardly.
    This is where the concept of value becomes a personal measure. Many would value Trout’s huge WAR number over any number by Cabrera, but does that really relay his true value? His value is in game to game performance, not one overall number.
    And like my Molina example, value is a fickle thing – Trout is a great centerfielder and should continue to be so, but how many great centerfielders are there? A dozen, maybe 15? Again, from game to game it varies but that’s where true value lies.
    But look at what Molina does offensively and defensively…I honestly wouldn’t trade Molina right now for hardly anyone….maybe a Trout…maybe a Verlander…but if someone came to me right now and offered me Bryce Harper for Molina I would say no thank you…corner outfielders who can hit 25 to 30 homers and play solid defense are a dime a dozen….Molina is far more valuable than that.
    I’m sure some would disagree, but the year before Mike Trout arrived in LA the Angels won 86 games. With Trout (and Pujols for that matter) they won 89. Just how valuable can they be?
    I kid because they are incredibly valuable, but its from game to game. If Trout makes an error and goes 0 for 5 it won’t effect his WAR, but for that game he was a real stinker. The next day he goes 4-5 with 4 steals and a pair of doubles and he;s a young God again. WAR in the end, shows only his greatness.

  50. ThomasWayne Says:

    Sorry…hit the wrong key and posted when I should have kept typing…

    I meant to say…WAR, in the end, shows only his greatness on a large scale. It doesn’t predict, enhance or effeciently affect the actually game as its played. But RBI does. So do runs. OBP, avg. Etc.

    Let me throw this out there and see if you agree or disagree…It involves the 1995 AL MVP voting..

    In 1995 John Valetin led the AL (and all of Baseball for that matter) in WAR with 8.1.
    Valentin’s other stats looked like this…
    Games- 135
    Plate Apps – 621
    Runs -108
    Hits – 155
    Doubles – 37
    HR – 27
    RBI – 102
    SB- 20
    Walks – 81
    K’s – 67
    Avg. .298
    OBP .399
    SLG .533
    OPS .931
    He won a Silver Slugger and finished 9th in AL MVP voting.

    Now, here is Albert Belle’s 1995 season. His WAR was 6.6, 1.5 lower than Valentin’s league leading number.
    Games – 143
    Plate Apps – 631
    Runs – 121 led the league
    HIts – 173
    Doubles – 52 led the league
    HR – 50 led the league
    RBI – 126 led the league
    SB – 5
    Walks – 73
    K’s – 80
    Avg. .317
    OBP .401
    SLG .690
    OPS 1. 091
    Belle was an All Star, won a Silver Slugger and finished 2nd in MVP voting. He is the only player in history to have 50 doubles and 50 homers in the same season.

    Now…even with his league leading WAR, do you really believe, when you look at all the numbers, that Valentin was more valuable or at the very least had a better season than Belle?

    While you think carefully about your answer also keep this in mind…the 1995 AL MVP was Mo Vaughn. Here are his numbers.
    Games – 140
    Plate Apps – 636
    Runs – 98
    Hits – 165
    Doubles- 28
    HR – 39
    RBI – 126 tied with Belle for league lead
    SB 11
    Walks – 68
    K’s – 150 led the league
    avg. .300
    obp. .388
    slg .575
    ops .963

    He was an All Star and won a Silver Slugger to go with the MVP. His WAR was 4.1.

    When looking at these seasons, all numbers considered, is it concieveable that anyone could possibly disagree with me that Albert Belle got screwed out of an obvious MVP?
    Belle didn’t win because half the voters didn’t vote for him not based on any sort of stat – they just didn’t like the son of a bitch. He’s a surly bastard that rubbed people the wrong way and this cost him an MVP, not his numbers.

    This goes to the very heart of MVP voting…how many old school guys didn’t vote for Trout because they don’t like WAR? How many didn’t vote for Cabrera out of racial spite? How many ignored Trout because he was a rookie and think a rookie doesn’t deserve an MVP. How many new school guys ignored Cabrera’s numbers completely just because WAR tells them Trout was better so end of discussion. Under the rationale that WAR tells all John Valentin was the only choice for MVP in 1995, but really, other than his WAR number, he isn’t even close to Belle? No one is…that’s a season of incredible numbers…50/50…led the league in four categories…and lost out because he’s an unlikable sonofabitch.

    I eagerly await your thoughts as well as anyone else’s.

  51. John Says:

    I mean, if we’re just comparing Vaughn and his teammate Valentin, seems that Valentin was clearly more valuable. Vaughn out-OPS’s Valentin by just 30 points. Valentin was a stud defensive SS; Vaughn, a slow-footed 1B. Was the difference in their respective values *exactly* worth 4 wins? Probably not, but it’s an approximation.

    With Belle, you can, if you want to have some fun with it, break down the contributions: in terms of pure batting ability, Belle destroys Valentin, 59 runs-batting to 31. All those stats you cited were hitting statistics. So yeah, Belle was the better hitter, no questions asked.

    Then we look at base-running and fielding – both skill and positional. The 5 tools, if you will. The big picture.

    Were Valentin’s contributions (and Belle’s negative contributions) in the field and on the base-paths enough to make up for the pure hitting discrepancy? According to WAR, yes, but it’s a judgement call to an extent…there are no definitive answers, just probable answers. It’s ignorant to believe that you know all, but I can make a reasonably well-informed guess, based on historical correlation factors, that Valentin was more valuable than Belle. But maybe I’m wrong. Maybe you are. No one actually knows for sure.

  52. John Says:

    You mentioned Molina – he was a legit MVP candidate with or without WAR:

    Posey: 7.2
    McCutchen: 7
    Braun: 6.8
    Molina: 6.7

    WAR doesn’t definitively say Posey was the most valuable – rather, it tells us that (unlike the AL race) – it was a dead heat and you could be right no matter who you picked. (unless you picked Michael Young!)

  53. ThomasWayne Says:

    One more quick post to stir the pot….last year Ben Zobrist led the AL in WAR…here is my question for the SABR types out there…and keeping in mind this hypothetical does not involve the player’s salary…lol…but who do you think the Rays would rather have getting 4 at bats a game for them…Cabrera or Zobrist.
    Or…look at it this way…would the Tigers want Zobrist over Cabrera simply because WAR says Zobrist has more value..or is better…or whatever you believe WAR tells you.


  54. John Says:

    Is it just the four at-bats, or do they field too.

    If price was no option, I’d rather have Cabrera, for the record, largely because I think the defensive numbers have some unreliable variation to them.

    But I’d rather have Zobrist for 5.5M than Cabrera for 20M.

  55. Cameron Says:

    If you look at stuff like WAR as a measure of cost-effectiveness like that, it’s not all that bad.

  56. ThomasWayne Says:

    I left out cost because clearly that has a lot to do with how players are valued outside of their “on field” value. Clearly, based on price, Zobrist is a better option, but not the better player. And that my friends is how we should break all of these stat arguments down – not on one number, or any set of numbers. The simple question of “who is the better hitter” is not always easily answered, but in cases like this – Zobrist or Cabrera – the answer is more than obvious and you don’t really need stats to tell you anything.
    The real question is at what point does someone like Zobrist lose value? If he was to leave Tampa and get a free agent dea for say $16 milly a year, does his on field value really decrease based on price. The play may be the same but the pay isn’t.

  57. ThomasWayne Says:

    And just in case anybody wonders, I think the evaluation of defense vs offense is ludicris in most cases. Cabrera has so much value at the plate that the extra 5 to 15 mistakes he makes per year in the field scattered over 150 or more games is easily made up for by his huge production at the dish.

    Basic Concept – Cabrera and 15 errors and 35 jacks, 120 plated, 100 scored spread out over a full season outweighs any player at the same position who makes 8 errors, hits 25, drives in 80 and scores 80.

    This is goes further in Cabrera’s favor when you consider not all errors are created equal. If he makes 25 errors and only 12 of those lead to runs scored its irrelevant that the other 13 errors even existed.

    Again, its a game to game thing and thats what counts. Cabrera as an offensive weapon is so much greater than his possible defensive liabilities its not even worth noting. Otherwise Mark Belanger would be regarded as the greatest weapon of all time….lol.

  58. John Says:

    “If he was to leave Tampa and get a free agent deal for say $16 milly a year, does his on field value really decrease based on price.”

    Well, the difference is that a team with limited resources, like the Rays, couldn’t reasonably afford him at 1/3 of their payroll.

    As it stands, the Rays are able to pay Zobrist AND Longoria AND Price what the Tigers are paying Cabrera. The advantage of having a Zobrist – a player who is good at everything, but “monstrous” at nothing is that, while he provides his team with value everywhere, he isn’t overly expensive. Thus, Zobrist can be a ~5 win player while still enabling his team to afford both a ~6-win player and a ~6-win starter.

  59. John Says:

    @57, there’s so much more to the big picture than that though.

  60. Mike Felber Says:

    Value is a matter of the context. We were discussing trying to discover absolute value, obviously what I team can affor, other pieces they can pick up with the savings, & their immediate & long term plan play into their decisions.

    but Thomas, it makes no sense to compare the value of any platyer by only looking at the batting. You are sirning the song I have long argued re: offense meaning a lot more than defense-I have used the examples of Ted Williams vs. Maz, to show top dominance in different aspects of the game & mediocre in others-& how much they were worth.

    Though to get any kind of detail in who is better or how valuable, it would be about as silly to discount base running & defense as to only look at raw #s. And those context dependent raw #s do not give a good idea of how good one is!

    If one guy is excellent, Trout, & the other no better than OK or bad, that is a BIG difference! Enhanced by differential value of the positions they play.

    Also you are minimizing defensive value, since you do not consider at all range factor. Which even most traditionalist acknowledge means significantly more than what is ruled an error. Otherwise a Mays, Speaker, (either of two) DiMaggio, would not have been nearly as valuable as touted. But they were. And tons of infielders especially would never make it to MLB, & Oz, Maz, Belanger…Would not have been HOF-very valuable players. They would be from marginal players to not regular starters!

    Also, WAR does vary from day to day, slightly like BA/OBP/Slg stats. And you should also consider base running, arm-& how many games a guy plays. It seems like you did not weigh these things at all when considering the ‘95/Belle argument AL MVP. Please do so & then tell us if you think (you mean r)WAR was not accurate that year.

  61. Mike Felber Says:

    Though Thomas, You help make the point I have been trying to get a couple of unnamed un-lifting enlightened folks to recognize here, through both anecdotal, theoretical, & scholarly (links) arguments:

    There is great overlap between those who juice up & do not. Due to variations in effort, training efficiency, diet-& genetics.

    Bonds & Sosa were not genetic outliers in muscle building or frame, & drugged up.

    But some could get to there same peak body weight & BEYOND at the same body fat level due to very high genetic potential & efficient lifting & nutrition!

    Not a high %, but many individuals-like that a tiny % of men are 6′ 6″ or above, but many individuals, & the average height is greater in B-ball. Athletes are more likely to be genetically gifted in these types of regards.

    So then. I have seen & said here that a SMALL % of men can get to be 6′ 2″ & 250 at 10% body fat, naturally. You are likely one, right? I mean, you did not lift heavy & systematically for years, struggling & changing routines & eating many times a day high protein & being sore all the time, right?

    So you did not even approach your genetic potential. You must have dinosaur bones, makes folks heavier & provides more room to attach muscle.

    But even though you were naturally big, could not you have been ~ 30 lbs. lighter with the same muscle, which would have been significantly easier on the knees? You did not need to be 265, right?

  62. Chuck Says:

    Sabermetrics justifies traditional thinking, not the other way around.

    If you forget that, or worse, ignore it, then you’re missing the entire point of it all.

  63. Mike Felber Says:

    No way Chuck! That is what you want to believe. But we have listed innumerable examples, & can spill paragraphs at a moments notice, about how traditional thinking has often been wrong. As is the “eye test”. Even how often folks do things well or squander opportunities, let alone how valuable each component is.

    I dunno how you can believe that SM folks are most often wrong. But anyone is an extremist who believes there is no wisdom or truth in this, or in traditional idea(l)s.

    You asked who played ball who is into SM. You can ask at & find folks who played at a variety of levels. And many like me did no more than Little League, some other sports here & there (Track & Field, lifting) & in the streets.

  64. Chuck Says:

    “That is what you want to believe..”

    No, that’s what YOU want to believe, because you don’t know better.

    It’s OK, Mike, I get it. There’s no need to always have to defend yourself.

    “You can ask at”

    I asked YOU.

  65. John Says:

    “Sabermetrics justifies traditional thinking, not the other way around.”

    And yet, it’s the traditional writers who give the MVP to the guy with the most RBI’s.

  66. Cameron Says:

    How many RBIs did Justin Verlander hit in 2011?

    …Sorry, deal in absolutes and I’m obliged to hang you by them.

  67. Mike Felber Says:

    Repeating a premise without evidence Chuck. It makes no sense to not address my arguments & yet claim I am wrong Also, when you say I am defending myself, that incorrectly implies it is an ego based argument. Not at all. I am doing what is good & healthy ‘n proper here, debating the issue well & politely.

    Should I “defend” myself when you repeat your question to me? I answered not only where others would tell you,but the range of levels of baseball & sports some play. And my own experience. That was responsive. Would you like me to also research what other prominent SM guys played & at what level? I cannot recall who played what offhand, but some have described playing…

  68. Chuck Says:

    Do you honestly think Cabrera won MVP strictly based on the Triple Crown?

  69. Chuck Says:

    Cornered like a rat, Mike.

    Gonna be fun watching you wiggle out of this one, no matter how much you try.

    You’re the queen of evidence here, everytime someone says something you disagree with, like with Bagwell, you scream for it.

    Now, the shoe’s on the other foot.

    You said, “Many SM people played at many different levels”, at which I asked to provide evidence.

    Your response was, “You can ask at & find folks who played at a variety of levels.”

    If the shoes were on the other foot, would you have accepted that response from me?

    I want at least three names, with playing experience (above high school) and sites they frequent, and at least two of them must not have ever heard of HHS (or Dugout Central).

    We’re waiting, although not holding our breath.

  70. Bob Says:

    @ 68. 95% yes the triple crown. The other 5% because the Tigers made the playoffs. Cabrera beat Trout on those two facts. If Trout won,it would have been because he was… better??? We all agreed

  71. Chuck Says:

    Totally disagree with that, Bob.

  72. Chuck Says:


  73. John Says:

    “I want at least three names, with playing experience (above high school) and sites they frequent, and at least two of them must not have ever heard of HHS (or Dugout Central).”

    Brandon McCarthy

  74. John Says:

    “Do you honestly think Cabrera won MVP strictly based on the Triple Crown?”

    It had everything to do with triple-crown statistics, and nothing to do with “eye-tests.”

  75. Mike Felber Says:

    “Cornered like a rat” + you portray me as a screamin’ Queen, strictly objective & a Marquis de Queensbury logical debate there, huh? lol. But You do have one fair point.

    Yes, I would insist upon evidence if I disagreed. I did not anticipate both that you would not accept this after mys statement of places like HHS, & also you just changed/added new conditions. Playing experience above High School, & never heard of these two sites/ i would have to research this. HHS is fairly well knows, do you literally mean ever hear of it or us? Or just not posting in the community there or here? It is very hard to know who heard of what without getting a specific response from them.

    Since you have demanded something different & beyond what I claimed, so at least clarify.

  76. Mike Felber Says:

    Not 95% that he won the 3X crown. But a good part of it, & a bit likely the Tigers making the playoffs.

    Cabrera’s great bat had a lot to do with it to. Advanced metrics do well in pointing out total value, when a gaudy bat & great, often context-enhanced stats blind folks to actual total value.

    Albert Belle was the highest paid player in the league for 4 straight years. But WAR reflects that his highest (& only top 10) WAR rankings were 4th, 6th, & 8th. His highest ever was 6.7. Does this not seem about right?

    The eye test & traditionalists are more prone to overrate many like him for these reasons. And ironically also overrated the no hit, good field type (though when there were less BB/Ks & HRs, at least those guys had some more value/plays to handle than today.) Not always, but very often overrate these types, & other things like great w-l pitchers, also ERA not considered for context, & ERA + not considered for their defenses!

    Guys like Koufax overrated, since longevity not fully considered, the mound height, park, & era…& his very poor bat. While he was great at his peak, it has been said that 6 or 7 had at least as good a peak (pick any # of years you like). That is correct, & my avatar had a better peak.

    All those partially dependent RBIS by a guy like Belle are very seductive to the human braiaiaian.

  77. Chuck Says:

    Mike, why can’t you just say you have no idea?

    You got busted with your hand in the cookie jar, get over it.

    The world isn’t ending until Saturday.

    So…Koufax is overrated in part because he couldn’t hit?


  78. Mike Felber Says:

    I DO have an idea, you in mo reasonable sense “caught me” as wrong or trying to get one past anyone. At all.

    You added conditions that I cannot immediately meet. I never said that I could name folks who played above HS AND I was sure never “heard of’ those sites! Again, I asked you in very good faith if you meant it literally, & would have to research the question. John provided you an example already.

    You also distorted what i said about Koufax. His bigger than usual pitcher’s batting limitation was only a small, but real, factor in his being overrated. Just like my avatar gets over 13 WAr for his batting: you have no problem that a pitcher with a whopping 76 career OPS + getting some credit for contributing to winds, right? Oh, & the highest pitcher single season BA ever, move over Hornsby!

    Must I again list what i described above, re: leangth of peak, era, mound, & ball park?!

  79. John Says:

    No one cares about a pitcher’s ability to hit unless he’s Babe Ruth, and no one thinks (or should think) that Koufax is even close to as great as Walter Johnson.

    I do think it’s pretty cool that Walter Johnson had a 76 OPS+ though, or like, basically what the Rangers’ DH put up last year.

  80. Chuck Says:

    “You added conditions that I cannot immediately meet.”

    You couldn’t meet them if I gave you a year.

    “John provided you an example already.”

    I didn’t ask John, therefore, you can’t use his answer.

  81. Mike Felber Says:

    If you really believed that Chuck, why do you keep avoiding my question? Though to give you the benefit of the doubt, unlike me, you often do not pay attention! For whatever reason, tell me exactly what i keep asking if you want me to prove anything. You CHANGED the conditions, but clarify how literal you were with your ADDITIONAL demands. Which go beyond what I claimed to be able to prove. But I will be happy to check up for you!

    I also did not use John’s answer. But it is valid, right?

    No John, Folks do not care TOO MUCH about pitcher’s ability to hit, since they normally do not vary that much, average near 0 OPS +. But you bet teams like or lament really good or bad hitters, & fans celebrate very good hitters like Gibson, Drysdale, Wes Ferrel…These guys add significant value. Since he was so good overall, the value lost when Koufax was worse than an average pitcher is not much lamented. And people forgive poor fielding from the best hitters.

    But as you know, these things add up. Luckily few think Koufax was as great as the Big Train. Yet those who see great improvement over the years might even prefer Koufax, only for a peak evaluation. And some (not SM folks) overrate Sandy due to lack of adjustment for era & park, fuhgettabout his anemic bat.

  82. Chuck Says:

    Holy crap, Mike.

  83. Chuck Says:

    So, Swisher got a 4/50 offer from the Indians, and he’s still looking?


    a) he wants more years, or,

    b) he really doesn’t want anything to do with Cleveland.

  84. Len Says:

    I’m kind of surprised the Indians are going after Swisher because it seems like an odd move. The Indians are terrible and have one of the worst if not the worst pitching staffs in baseball. They just traded away their best offensive player (Choo) and the Tigers are going to be division favorites for the next few years. So why give a right fielder for his age 32-35 seasons a 4 year $50 million contract. I don’t get it.

  85. Chuck Says:

    So, on Clubhouse Confidential last night, Brian Kenny released his HOF ballot.

    He said if he could only vote for one player, he’d vote Tim Raines.

    And if that wasn’t bad enough, he also voted for Bernie Williams.

  86. John Says:

    “And if that wasn’t bad enough, he also voted for Bernie Williams.”

    That’s an odd one.

  87. Chuck Says:

    “That’s an odd one.”

    So is Kenny.

  88. Bob Says:

    The Mariners and Angels with a trade. Jason Vargas for Kendrys Morales

  89. Chuck Says:

    That’s really interesting…

    Morales either bumps Justin Smoak to a reserve role or trade, or Jesus Montero to Tacoma.

  90. Len Says:

    Does Brian Kenny have a HOF vote?

    The only way I can see someone justifying a Bernie Williams HOF vote is if you give massive bonus points for post-season play or if you advocate a 300 member Player HOF instead of the roughly 200 member Player HOF that exists.

    There’s simply too many eligible CF that are similar to B. Williams that aren’t even in the HOF: F. Lynn, D. Murphy, C. Lemon, B. Butler, D. White, E. Burks, and Willie Wilson. Then you have a similar player like Johnny Damon who isn’t even eligible. Then you have another group of eligible guys from the 60’s-70s that were much better than Williams that aren’t on a HOF ballot like J. Wynn, W. Davis, C. Cedeno, and Vada Pinson. Then you have even 3 more CF that were better not even eligible, A. Jones, C. Beltran and J. Edmonds. And then there’s Kenny Lofton who is on this year’s ballot.

    That being said B. Williams was a hell of a player from 1995-2002 and actually was quite underrated. He was probably one of the top 20 players from that time period. He hit, .321/.404/.531, .937 ops, 142 ops+ 7 consecutive seasons of 100+ runs, 5 seasons of 100 rbi’s, 194 HR, 260 2b, 2338 TB. His career suddenly fell off a major cliff in 2003 and in retrospect he was a lousy fielder and in no way deserved those gold gloves. The Yankees would have been better with B. Williams in left field but they were winning so nobody cared. Also, there’s no way he should have been playing full time in CF from 2003-2005 but the Yankees were winning so nobody cared. He also had some great post season success.

  91. Chuck Says:

    No, thankfully.

    What a douchebag..I wouldn’t let Kenny vote in the election to see who brings cupcakes to the PTA meeting.

    Chet Lemon? Brett Butler? Willie Wilson?

    Did you get another shipment of Egyptian mushrooms Len?


  92. Mike Felber Says:

    I have been as rational, polite & sincere as possible Chuck. How many times can I say just answer & clarify if you really want me to find examples-though you shifted & restricted the conditions of which SM folks I can pick with what experience, so I do not know how easy it will be.

    I agree completely Len, Bernie Williams was a very good player & guy, but not HOF material.

  93. Chuck Says:

    Stop acting like a child, Mike.

    This shouldn’t have to be explained to you.

    Playing t-ball doesn’t count as “experience”

    Quitting organized sports a year before puberty doesn’t count as “experience”

    Never having your high school uniform washed in two years doesn’t count as “experience”

    The reason I specified “not HHS” is because I knew that’s the only place you go.

    You don’t know anyone there, much less on Fangraphs or Baseball Prospectus because you don’t frequent those sites.

    Do me a favor, would you?

    I don’t need you to answer the question, because, like every other time, I knew the answer before I asked.

    Seriously, find something else to do.

  94. Mike Felber Says:

    What a mean response Chuck.

    1) It was not clear at all that you wanted experience beyond HS. Fine to finally say so, not to keep ignoring the question.

    2) There was never any reason to disqualify HHS: if you wanted those who played at a higher level, who cares about where they are from? The point was “any have played at different levels”.

    3) No, I read & have linked here articles from various sports sites, besides HHS & SI, fangraphs (you are wrong, there, & I have commented),, comment on Duggerman’s Ranch often, + others…HHS is the one baseball site I have been reading & commenting on regularly recently.

    4) I do not need to “find” anything to do Chuck, I was trying in a very niiiice, adult way, to meet your challenge. “never heard of HHS” was always a silly request.

    You have your mind made up already, & are not able to follow through with hearing any other answer.

    I have no doubt that, barring a quantum leap in good conscience here, you will not say, “whoops, you do know & go to other sports web sites, including fangraphs. My bad”.

  95. Mike Felber Says:

    Sorry, my claim was “Many” SM folks have played at different levels.

  96. Len Says:


    Are Egyptian mushrooms more powerful than American mushrooms for some reason?

    I don’t get your confusion about Lemon, Butler, and Wilson. I wasn’t making a HOF case for those 3 players on the contrary I said they weren’t strong HOF candidates and neither is B. Williams.

    What you initially posted is confusing because you said “Brian Kenny released his HOF ballot.” I thought the BBWAA somehow gave him a vote for some reason. He doesn’t have a ballot so he can say anything he wants because it doesn’t mean anything.

  97. Chuck Says:

    I would assume most would know Brian Kenny isn’t a BBWAA member.

    The difference between him and us is the platform, and since his platform comes with a six figure salary then he has a responsibility for truth.

    One of the first things learned in any journalism class is limiting opinion.

    I get that Kenny’s show isn’t mainstream and being a bit unorthodox is part of that, but, shit, that’s a bit much.

  98. Chuck Says:

    “What a mean response Chuck.”


    My plan when John is on his LOA is to recruit Patrick, Brautigan and Lefty back more frequently during the season so we can have fresh topics and debate.

    If you not being here is a condition of any of them coming back….

    Then again, the best way to limit your involvement IS to talk baseball.

    You’ve avoided a simple question for three days now, and instead of coming flat-out and saying you don’t know the answer, you’ve tried to turn this back on me.

    Play nice or go find another sandbox.

  99. Len Says:


    Well with all the new media platforms, it’s hard to tell who gets new votes in the BBWAA. By the way you phrased your post, I wan’t sure if Kenny had received a HOF vote from online baseball reporting or something of that nature. I only previously knew Kenny from boxing.

    I do have to say he has a very odd stare about him. Overall he’s not a very good on air personality (IMO). To me, he always comes across like he’s in a movie, acting the part of a stereotypical t.v. sports reporter.

    MLB Network on air personalities are hit or miss for me, mostly miss. One problem I have with the MLB network is that it sometimes feels like they have 50 on air personalities in that place. Another pet peeve is that it seems like they have way too many buffoonish ex-players who aren’t very good or the least bit professional.

  100. John Says:

    “What a mean response Chuck.”

    Lol…after like, 4 years are you surprised?

  101. John Says:

    “My plan when John is on his LOA is to recruit Patrick, Brautigan and Lefty back more frequently during the season so we can have fresh topics and debate.”

    We can do that now, if you want. You brought up Kenney.

  102. Chuck Says:

    Lefty lurks, I emailed Braut a couple of days ago, Patrick’s next on the list.

    What does Kenny have to do with it?

  103. Chuck Says:

    I agree Len…Kenny is better when he’s moderating a that ESPN boxing thing he used to do.

    Leading a show?

    He sucks.

  104. Chuck Says:

    I admit to going over the top sometimes, mostly because I used to have the bad habit of commenting at midnight after a six pack…but…

    Twisting and spinning something to get your own foot out of your mouth instead of just spitting it out ticks me off…Shaun did that all the time.

    It’s much easier to say, “Hey, sorry, I’m a dumbass”, and move on.

    I’d forget about it, and have more respect, if you did that up front.

    Prolonging it only raises my blood pressure, which isn’t a good thing.

  105. Len Says:

    There’s too many goofball ex-players on the MLB network for me. Guys like: Kevin Millar, Eric Byrnes, Sean Casey and Mitch Williams. I’m not a fan of Billy Ripken, Chris Rose, Matt Yallof or Brian Kenny. I run hot/cold with Larry Bowa. Sometimes it feels like they’re trying to copy those crappy Fox broadcasts.

    I like John Hart, Leiter, Reynolds, and Kaat.

  106. Chuck Says:

    Yeah, Byrnes and Casey especially are a little much for me, even Plesac sometimes gets annoying.

    I like Hart, Reynolds, Al Leiter, Joe Magrane, Williams. Mike Lowell’s been on a couple of times and he’s really good, too.

  107. Len Says:

    Yeah, Magrane and Lowell are good. Costas, Gammons and Verduchi are good when they’re on.

    Millar, Brynes, Casey and Plesac just come off as unprofessional to me. Millar showed up on one broadcast and it looked like he just fell out of bed and walked into the studio. Then he starts giving his opinions on free agents and starts doing his goofball crap, etc. It’s like why do should I give a crap what he says or what his opinions are? It seems like they’re trying to emulate some of the schtick and crap that Chris Rose used to do on that Fox sports show.

  108. Cameron Says:

    It’s kinda hard for Bob Costas not to be good at what he does. For my money, he’s the best broadcaster in sports today.

  109. Chuck Says:

    What’s made Costas so successful for so long is understanding his role and not going away from that to chase the buck.

    You’d never see him hosting the X games or as a contestant on Dancing with the Stars

  110. Mike Felber Says:

    Mean & petty conduct is never “good” Chuck. Shameful arguably. What is remarkable is that while I call ya on these things, I have never responded in (un)kind. While you see-saw between polite, passive aggressive & mean.

    I have not had any tensions with those guys, except for Lefty. And I never mistreat anyone, but the way some have bullied & been abusive to others-they would be gone in most forums. Though MOSt here have never been this way.

    You do not listen Chuck. I made very clear, again & again, that I did not know the answer when you ADDED the conditions of play after SH AND “never heard” of I asked you in good faith repeatedly if you meant that literally, SAID I would need to research it…

    You were the unstable one, insulting me while I was polite, saying I was a “Cornered rat”, “queen”, then dismissing the challenge I was trying to meet.

    I was talking baseball, have been doing so, followed your arbitrary & shifting strictures…

    The truth you do not want to face is you have never adequately dealt with your dark side.

    IF you want to be open minded, I have a challenge for YOU.

    Have someone neutral, not in conflict with either of us, read this whole exchange. From your challenge to here. Patrick or Brautigan will do just fine.

    Ask them to give you there honest opinion about who has been fair, respectful, rational—> & who not. Tell them to not be afraid to tell either of us, privately or publicly.

  111. Mike Felber Says:

    I head you Chuck, & I appreciate the balls to say you sometimes go over the top, & to call me on what you do not like.

    But I respectfully submit that, in all likelihood due to the 6 pack, you sometimes do not see clearly WHAT I say.

    I really was asking for your conditions to be clarified to search for an answer I admitted I did not have yet. Since you did add the “after HS, & never heard of strictures.

    Look, this does not apply here, but if either of us is being stubborn & not admitting something: no need to get upset. Tell the person exactly why they are wrong, blind, in denial…Thsat is fine, but especially when you are not personally attacked-no need for anyone’s blood pressure to skyrocket!

    Now then, as a peace pipe, want to be happy that my “drought” ended last Friday? ;-)

  112. Chuck Says:

    TMI, Mike.

  113. Chuck Says:

    Was she breathing?

  114. Mike Felber Says:

    Ha! Er, um…she was at the time *looks around furtively*. On a 3 week visit with family actually.

  115. Chuck Says:

    Oh, so she’s a relative?

  116. Chuck Says:

  117. Mike Felber Says:

    Nice fact filled story Chuck.

    The opposite observation above. Though Zing, that was a good one! Not as perfect as “Freaks” being the Felber family reunion, also because I served up this meatball right down Main Street. So suuuure, put them both together, she was one of those characters actually…”One of us! One of us!”

    A brilliant friend, gourmet chef, former Assistant to the Lineage holder, personal coach, head of Baltimore Shambhala, writer & comedian (both with my ventures too). Saw his Dharma talk again Tuesday. For anyone at all who gets down sometimes, this talk is earthy yet incredible.

  118. Len Says:

    Looks like the Mets are trying to have a reunion of the 2006 all star game because they already have Wright and Santana and they’re rumored to be going after Grady Sizemore and Francisco Liriano. They should see if they can get Scott Kazmir while they’re at it. It’s a shame they let Jason Bay go because he played in that game as well. They’re also looking to sign Carl Pavano alumnus of the 2004 all star game.

  119. Jim Says:

    Which is the more screwed up team, the Mets or the Jets?

  120. Chuck Says:

    Oh, the Jets by far.

  121. Len Says:

    I have to agree with Chuck on that one. The Jets don’t even have that great defense anymore and the rest of the team is in disarray.

    At least the Mets have good leadership in Alderson and he’s turning the ship around and cleaning house. Alderson is their best G.M since they had Frank Cashen in the early 80’s. They also seem like they actually have some sort of game plan instead of their usual improv or ad hoc philosophy. Kind of like signing Mike Cameron to a 3 year contract to play CF in 2004 and then going out the next year and giving Carlos Beltran a 7 year contract to play CF. Giving Bay $50 million, giving 40 year olds like Moises Alou & El Duque each $10 million and then they never play etc. Then it seems like there finally stopping the long contracts for past their prime all star free agents. They also seem like for the first time since Cashen making good trades to get young player for their aging all stars.

    Bay and Santana’s contracts come off the books after year so that’s about $40 million dollars right there. The Maydoff thing is behind them. They have Wheeler, Harvey and D’arnaud in the majors or coming up. I could imagine the Mets might actually be competitive in 2014.

  122. Mike Felber Says:

    You can take this is god fun-as the vast majority of the 150 + comments did-or say “bah, humbug”, & choose to believe it represents the worst possible extrapolation of baseball metrics philosophy.

  123. Mike Felber Says:

    Well “good” fun at least, if God existed I do not think he would be considering midget inefficiencies in sports.

  124. Bob Says:

    Cody Ross to Arizona.

  125. Mike Felber Says:

    Lists with links to top SI sports stories over the years.

  126. Cameron Says:


    RIP Ryan Freel, Age 36

  127. Chuck Says:

    #122…how about both?

    It’s the slow season for the internet too.

  128. Mike Felber Says:

    Sure, having fun Scrooge! ‘Tis the season to be silly.

    Now this man is ambulatory. He could both easily be the oldest player ever, as well as a great September call up. Unless deemed so valuable for his ability to draw walks & be immediately replaced by a pinch runner that you would cede a roster spot for the whole season. Makes Gaedel look like a giant.

  129. Chuck Says:

    “My New Years resolution – one new article a week starting the first week of 2013.”

    So much for that.

  130. Bob Says:

    The Cubs signed Zach Putman.

  131. Chuck Says:

    A little help here, Bob.

    Who’s Zach Putman?

  132. Bob Says:

    A Righty who was drafted by the Indians from Univ. of Michigan a few years ago. Then was traded to Colorado. Went to Ann Arbor Pioneer which is a fantastic school athletic wise. Kicked our asses in swimming ( my best sport) yearly and in everything else.

  133. Bob Says:

    I was just readiong Nate Silver’s most recent post and he said Notre Dame was unranked by the AP at the beginning of the season.

  134. Cameron Says:

    Indeed they were. Crazy season for the Irish.

  135. Raul Says:

    Notre Dame shouldn’t even be in the championship game, but whatever.

  136. Thomas Wayne Says:

    Check your inbox Chuck, I sent you a new article to post this morning….so one a week is still good to go…lol

  137. Chuck Says:

    Haha…OK, Thomas.

    Probably won’t get to it til tomorrow..if that’s OK.

  138. Bob Says:

    Chuck, since I am not sure when John will be leaving, should we divvy up the division write-ups and prediction? I could have one write-up to you by Sunday. And I could care less what division I do. Perhaps Cameron does the Central if he wants. I could certainly do two.
    You make the call.

  139. Chuck Says:

    Let’s see when John is leaving..if he’s going at the end of March, then he could knock off the NL Central and maybe one other.

    It’s too early to do them now anyway.

  140. Bob Says:

    Fair enough.

  141. Chuck Says:

    Holy crap at the Oppenheimer quote.

  142. John Says:

    I can hang around until at least July.

  143. Cameron Says:

    Touchdown Jesus is crying. What the HELL was that? Notre Damn!

  144. Chuck Says:

    You’ve fallen behind Thomas

  145. Chuck Says:

    Injuries are part of the game and while you always feel bad initially when a guy gets hurt, it doesn’t take long to get over it.

    But I got to tell you..what happened to Mat Gamel really sucks.

    He missed all but 21 games last year with a torn ACL..then the first day of spring training re-tore it again and will miss all of 2013.

  146. Chuck Says:

    Sorry, wrong thread

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